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Unlock the secrets of taming the digital marketing beast with the savviness of AI as digital marketing maven Jason Barnard joins me for a mind-expanding journey.

A consummate edutainer, Jason started teaching me amazing new concepts off the bat during our pre-recording chat and I had to include those powerful 6 minutes in the final edit for you!

We navigate the neural pathways of AI technologies like Gemini, ChatGPT and Microsoft Copilot, drawing lessons from how their information processing works so you can further enhance your digital strategies.

You’ll discover how a UNIFIED online presence is not just a choice, but a necessity in today’s AI-driven world, and why treating Google like a child might just be the master key to communicating with all AI technologies.

Through this episode, you’ll also learn the power of managing your digital brand for maximum visibility and the critical importance of anchoring your online identity with a personal touch, ensuring your voice stands out among the AI-generated chatter.

The grand finale of our conversation is not just a call to action, but an invitation to revolutionise your digital presence with Jason’s expertise. You’ll learn and gain a deep understanding of how a focused digital footprint can catapult your business’s success and why direct human interactions still reign supreme in building meaningful connections.

Get ready to be inspired and level up your expertise with all things digital branding and I Intelligence!


Connect with Jason at https://www.kalicube.com

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. But I mean, it’s interesting you started off mentioning your megabot there because as we speak, I’ve got Gemini, GPT, and Copilot open.

And I generally have them open at all times and I’m constantly flipping between them and all of that sort of stuff.

And, you know, they are like my children in a child labor sense. Um, so yeah, so no, it’d be really cool to get into all that sort of stuff.

Jason Barnard: Have you asked them who is Jason Barnard?

Roberto Revilla: No, I’ll do that one.

Jason Barnard: Because this is one of my party tricks. Because our strategy of Google is a child actually works for all of these machines.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Oh, holy crap.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, it’s universal. It’s timeless. It’s delightful.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, I guess I mean it makes sense, right? Because all of these things are getting their information from Google.

Jason Barnard: Well, they’re all getting it from the web and they all function in the same way. They’re not all inventing new technology to do the same job and they’re all using the same data source as the web. And they’re all serving the same audience, which is people looking for solutions.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah.

Jason Barnard: So obviously, they all use the same technology stack or a very similar one. They use the same algorithm approach. They use the same data set and they’re serving the same audience. So they all function the same. So if, I was speaking to somebody the other day who said, well I’ve got myself into Google, Bing, but I haven’t managed ChatGPT yet. I say what on earth have you got a different strategy for all of them? It should be the same strategy for the whole lot.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah.

Jason Barnard: And that struck me as very strange because people are used to thinking I need a different strategy for the different machines They don’t understand they all function the same and they have for years.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. I just typed here is Jason Barnard into, oh, Copilot is going for ages. So it’s really interesting because ChatGPT was literally just like four sentences.

And then when you go to Gemini, that was a paragraph and then a quick run down of your career with four bullet points.

And then Copilot, couple sentences, no, three sentences. The last one Bing, let me share some interesting details about him.

It’s got the bullet points and it’s got four main headings and then it’s got bullet points within them. So the most comprehensive was Copilot, funnily enough.

Jason Barnard: Well, I mean Copilot… Well, the Copilot does a really interesting thing, which is a waterfall effect of queries, is that it will make the first query, Jason Barnard, who is Jason Barnard. Then it will do queries based on the results.

So it will figure out what the next questions are, or what the follow-up questions are. I can’t remember what they call it, but it’s basically a cascading system of queries to bring up that incredibly complete and up-to-date answer because they’re using Bing’s web index.

So you end up with a situation of ingrained fact, which is what Gemini and ChatGPT do, plus the live results evaluated for the veracity and the cascade are Copilot.

It’s hugely powerful. I know Fabrice Canel, who’s the project manager at Bing, who’s the boss basically at Bing. And he explains all this stuff to me.

He’s a really nice guy. He’s French. I speak French too. So we’re kind of French chums, as it were.

And he just kind of looks at the world around him and says, why are Google making life so complicated for themselves, which is a delightful kind of perspective.

And the lovely thing about Bing is they’ve got nothing to lose. So he’s just saying, we’re profitable for Microsoft.

Microsoft don’t rely on us for income. We’re profitable. So we’re allowed to do what we want. And every percentage point we win is a billion dollars.

So what do we care?

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, exactly.

It’s a really interesting thing. I just asked Copilot, who is Roberto Rivera, right? So I can tell where it’s got a lot of the initial information from on the first bit of the cascades, because it’s pretty much from my website.

And then in this, in the second one, it says other endeavors, art and film. So apparently I’m also known for my work in the film industry.

I’ve got credits as an art director, art department and set director for movies such as Vantage Point, Get the Gringo and Sin Nombre.

And then it talks about the podcast as well. So it’s obviously got me mixed up with another Roberto Rivera.

There aren’t that many of us. There’s another, I think there’s a third one, who’s a mathematician. So it’s obviously got me mixed up with the arty one, but I’ll take it because it’s just made me look even better than I already am.

Anyway, I also like the fact that Copilot, anyway, we’re not here to talk about all of this, we’re to talk about you.

But this is all really, really fascinating stuff, right?

Jason Barnard: But no, I find it fascinating. I don’t know how useful it is to your audience, but it’s absolutely super duper fascinating for me.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah.

Jason Barnard: So I mean, it’d be great if we can kind of just discuss how interesting all this is, but also give some practical information about how to deal with it, how to manage it.

Because I give you hints about that easy peasy, because it isn’t complicated. 

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, I feel like I’m your Kwala and you’re my Boowa. Sorry.

Jason Barnard: Yeah. Well, there are a couple of things. Number one is Google is the child, it’s all these machines. So you’re saying that your child in the child labor sense.

And I’m saying that my children in the terms that I’m their educator.

Yeah, I’m teaching them and holding them by the hand.

So I’m Boowa, helping them.

But for our clients, that’s what we do at Kalicube. I really think you’ve realised the other day, Kalicube is just Boowa, is that we guide you and hold your hand and help you face this incredibly scary world.

And Boowa is something I’ve been my entire life. And I’ve built a company that is Boowa for our clients and Boowa for the machines.

So for me, the rest of the world is Kwala.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah.

Jason Barnard: Yeah. You’re Kwala. You’re a yellow koala. How lovely.

Roberto Revilla: Exactly. Bramon. So our audience now, because I’m probably going to include all of this, is wondering what the F are these two talking about?

I better introduce you. Welcome to Tailoring Talk. I’m Roberto Rivera, the spoke tailor and we’ve got superpowers. I prepare my clients and listeners to when we’ll meet self starters and creators diving to their journeys and uncover valuable lessons to help you be the very best you can be.

Please help the show to grow and help more people by hitting subscribe and giving us a rating. Today’s guest is a true master of online brand management, reshaping Google’s gaze with strategic finesse since day one. As the CEO of Kalicube, he’s not just optimizing, he’s orchestrating a symphony of digital presence.

He also knows how I crafted this intro in honor of what he actually does for a living. From captivating conference audiences worldwide to hosting the acclaimed Branded Search (and Beyond) with Jason Barnard podcast, his impact has felt far and wide, with over two decades of Digital Marketing experience and an eclectic past that includes rocking out with The Barking Dogs.

Our guest’s journey is as vibrant as his digital footprint. Here to talk personal branding in the digital sense and how to make Google learn to love you.

Tailor and talkers, please welcome Jason Barnard to the show.

Jason, how are you?

Jason Barnard: Thank you very much, Roberto. That was absolutely delightful. I’m delighted to be here to talk about Google is a child, how can we make it lovers and for anybody who was a bit scared by the initial conversation, it’s actually very easy.

It really isn’t complicated. These machines are children, and our job is to educate them about who we are, what we do, which audience we serve.

And if you do it in an intentional manner, it becomes very easy.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, totally. Now, it’s really, really nice to, when I do get the opportunity to speak to a fellow countryman, because I can hear there is a British accent going on, where are you from originally because you are not actually based on this island, you’re based on a different island on the other side of the planet, I think.

Jason Barnard: I used to be. So I’ll give you the location history. Born in Leeds, brought up in Otley, near Leeds.

Roberto Revilla: I worked for West York Police, so I know most of the different district, yeah, sorry.

Jason Barnard: Who knows, you might have arrested me once in the past.

Roberto Revilla: No, no, no, I was responsible for IT infrastructure and all this nonsense.

Jason Barnard: All right, okay. Fair enough, in that case he won’t have arrested me. 

Roberto Revilla: Spending their money, basically.

Jason Barnard: Ooh, how lovely. Moved from Otley to Liverpool, where, interestingly enough, fun fact, I went to the same university as John Lennon, but several decades later, and I played the Cavern Club.

Roberto Revilla: If you’re the same time as John Lennon, you look bloody good.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, no, not quite. A couple of decades later, but I did get to play the Cavern Club, which is a super-duper fun thing to be able to say.

Then I moved to Paris and joined the band you mentioned earlier on The Barking Dogs, played punk folk music for ten years, making a living touring the country, playing double bass, generally having a really good time.

And then created the Boowa and Kwala. We were talking about the cartoon characters Boowa and Kwala with my ex-wife and we moved to Mauritius, which is a tiny island in the Indian Ocean.

We lived there for 13 years, making cartoons for kids on the desert island or a tropical island with beaches and sun.

What could be better?

Roberto Revilla: Fantastic. Yeah.

Jason Barnard: Then move back to France. I moved back to France about 10 years ago, and I created or founded Kalicube.

And since then, I’ve been learning to educate the algorithms, Google’s algorithms principally, but in fact, all of these algorithms, Perplexity, ChatGPT, Bing, Copilot, Google Gemini, the same strategy works for them all.

And my job as Boowa, the blue dog was to educate and help Kwala, the yellow koala, who’s my best friend in the cartoon, but also to educate the children we were engaging with at 1.60 million visits in 2007 to our website.

So it was a lot of children. And now I’m educating these machines like their children because the analogy is absolutely perfect.

And my career has all been about educating and sharing information and helping people, which I really, really, really enjoy.

So I now live in France. Currently, I’m in Slovenia for various reasons. So I get about a bit.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Did you say you’re a digital nomad of sorts?

Jason Barnard: Kind of, yeah, well, I’ve never owned a house and I’ve never had a proper job. I’ve never had a job where I was paid from nine to five.

I created my own company every time I needed a job and built my own job. And I never bought a house because I hadn’t had the money, but also because I never stay in one place for long enough. So yeah.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Self-starting creates you in the true sense of the word. I mean, we straight away at the beginning of the conversation. To the audience, Jason and I have never met. This is the first time. And we straight away got into a conversation about various AI tools.

ChatGPT, Gemini. I’m literally just looking at my Mac application bar and just reading off everything that I tend to use in tandem, Perplexity as well, because I did actually pre-order the Rabbit r1.

Mine arrives in July, I think, so I’m hoping by then they’ll have fixed all the problems with it because it’s had really bad press lately.

And so with that, they actually gave a year’s subscription to Perplexity Pro, I think it is, whatever the highest tier of Perplexity is.

Jason Barnard: Oh, wow. Lucky you. Not lucky you, actually because you’re having lots of problems.

Roberto Revilla: With Perplexity itself, I’ve actually found it really, really good in the sense that it seems to talk a more natural language than the others do.

And I think that’s the thing, right? So when, so people now are much more aware. Obviously GPT was kind of the first one where people, you know, you be at dinner parties and stuff, and people will be going, oh, yeah, just get ChatGPT to do it. And you’d be like, what the hell? What ChatGPT? What are they talking about? No idea.

And then months later, it’s common place language. And now people are starting to discover that there are other AI tools like Gemini, Copilot, etc.

And as they use them, and they do get different responses, so at the start of our call, you’ve said to me, type in who is Jason Barnard.

The information was quite similar, GPT, a paragraph, Gemini a little bit more than that and some bullet points, and then Copilot, which I think is, I think they’re Microsoft, so they own GPT?

But interestingly, it was the most comprehensive and then cascaded into a whole load of other stuff. So it told me your location in France, gave me some follow-up questions that I might want to search for, including your company as well.

And so I think people like myself as well, come to the conclusion that, okay, well, I’ve got some guys that I’ve downloaded and signed up for on how to master prompting in ChatGPT.

When I get time, I need to go and find out what I need to do in Gemini and then I need to go find out how to use Copilot and then I need to find out how to prompt for Perplexity.

They just assumed that they’re all different and you said it’s the same for all of them. How?

Jason Barnard: Yeah, well there are multiple things there. Really interesting kind of set of information you’ve given them. Number one is why are the other two so short and Bing so complete?

The answer is the other two are reading from their own memory. They’re not looking up on the internet. So it’s like children who have learned by route exactly who I am.

They don’t need to look it up. They just spit it out. 

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, so you asked me a question. I immediately close my eyes, go to retrieve that information and then I spit it back at you.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, whereas Bing has that and so it can start with that, but then it goes and looks in the encyclopedia, looks on the internet, looks around for what it can find and summarizes that in addition.

So what we’ve done or what we do at Kalicube with our process, the Kalicube Process, which is how you manage a digital brand online, we embed this information in their memory and their brain so it’s instant recall memory. And that’s the power because you can search for anybody’s name and they can figure it out by looking on the internet but they’re taking the search results and trying to summarize those rather than saying what they know is fact. And you will notice if they spit it out straight away they will tend to say things like world-leading expert. When they don’t, they won’t commit themselves to that kind of enthusiasm and they’ll say he knows a bit about Digital Marketing. So there’ll be less less kind of expansive about it. So our strategy is to get these machines to fundamentally understand who you are and not have to guess. And that’s self-determination in the future. It’s can I have self-determination about how I’m understood by these machines and how they represent me and that moves me to the next point which is the conversation.

It’s that you described with Copilot the conversation you’re starting to have with these machines. You started with a search and Bing still say that’s the jumping off point.

Then they engage you in a conversation. So the trick to being out there and being visible on the new engines, which we call assistive engines rather than search engines, because they’re assisting and they’re having a conversation.

The trick to win that game is to get the machines to understand you in depth with confidence so that they will introduce you to the conversation with the subset of their users who are your audience.

That’s the key.

Roberto Revilla: Wow. It’s such a paradigm shift in the way that you kind of think about this sort of thing, because most people I know, myself included, just end up getting into a massive fight with these things and not kind of understanding that you come from the point of view that it is like a child.

You know, it’s kind of sitting there just waiting for you to kind of prompt it and ask it a question so that it can then run off and give you answers. And you know even going in with the attitude that it wants to learn from you.

So can you give me an example of how, you know, that kind of works in practice?

Jason Barnard: Yeah, well you’ve made another interesting point which is you’re looking at it as a child with whom you’re having a conversation.

I’m looking at it from the perspective of how can I make that child or educate that child so it has the conversation that I want with you, with other people, with my audience. And I think a lot of people as you say go in thinking how do I prompt, how do I use this to my advantage to create content for my website or to find answers questions. And I’m one of the few people in the world who is looking at it from the other perspective is how can I use this for marketing?

How can I get myself into the brain of this machine? How can I get it to introduce me to the conversation with its users and then recommend me as the best solution because when you’re using these machines, you’re looking for the solution to a problem.

And I like also the term that they are the most important and the biggest influences in the world. They’re having billions of micro niche conversations with billions of people every day.

And you think about the biggest tip top influence or the biggest YouTube influence you can think of, 500 million followers, peanuts compared to what these machines are capable of doing if they’re willing to introduce you to the conversation and recommend you.

And the only problem you have is you can’t pay them to do it. You have to do it indirectly by educating them, which is what we do.

So your question was how do you do that? And the answer is you need what we call an entity home and we start there.

The entity home is one web page on the internet that you own that they understand is your representation of yourself.

They’re actively looking for it. John Mueller from Google says we call this reconciliation. It’s the point of reconciliation.

I call it the entity home. It’s where the machine can find information about you, from you. And it needs to be on a website you own.

And I would advise you for personal branding, but it’s your own personal website. You are not your company. You need your own personal website so you can start controlling the information that these machines understand, what they focus on, and how they represent you.

If you don’t have an entity home, you’re going to be struggling from the get go.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Wow.

Jason Barnard: Oh, the entity home only needs to be a two page website. You don’t need a huge website with a blog.

You just need a home page where you talk to your audience. So you say, here I am, I’m a tailor.

I also like to play golf. I also like this. If you want to engage with me, go here. If you want to talk about golf, go over here.

And then an about page where you state clearly the facts for the machine. The machine will look at the about page and use that as your version of the facts.

Who you are, who you serve, what your specialty is, and why you’re a credible solution. At that point, it would just look around the web and see does the rest of the web agree with you?

And if it does, job done.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. And then I guess it kind of just puts you away on the shelf as a point of reference for when people are asking questions because they’re looking for a solution to a problem that you have told it that you can solve through your branding.

I mean, it’s almost like creating your own Wikipedia page or branding guideline, right? Because that’s what brand is. It’s, you know, the website is the jam jar with the label on the front and you’re making sure that everything inside there is the jam that’s described on the outside.

It’s one of my favorite. I’m very visual, by the way. I was really excited to talk to you because I thought you would get it because some of…

Jason Barnard: The jam jar I do.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Well, some people, I think, find me a bit weird because I think in animation. So everything going on in my head and I’m trying to describe it to you, but when you’re teaching me stuff, I’m immediately animating it in my head and that’s how I kind of process information. Is that weird?

Jason Barnard: No, no, no. Having made a lot of cartoons, we made a TV series with Boowa and Kwala. My brain works like that a lot as well.

And I think it’s helpful because I come from a geeky world of data. We’ve got two billion data points from Google collected over the last nine years.

And part of the reason I’m an analyst, I have a degree in economics with a first in statistical analysis. It’s something I’m very good at.

And I think people think all that means he’s an accountant or that kind of person, but I’m not. It’s imagination that helps me to do that.

And exactly what you’re talking about is I see things moving in my brain and it’s the numbers becoming something that’s alive, something I can relate to, and it’s really helpful.

But coming back to Wikipedia, which you make a very, very, very good point. These machines have what we call Knowledge Graphs.

And the Knowledge Graph is simply a huge machine-readable encyclopedia. So Wikipedia is an encyclopedia for human beings and it’s tiny.

It’s got six million articles. So you’re not gonna get an article in Wikipedia unless you’re notable. Google’s Knowledge Graph has 54 billion articles in it.

So it’s actually quite easy to create your Wikipedia article, your jam jar in Google’s brain. So from that perspective, you only need to be understood.

You don’t need to be notable. Google wants to understand the whole world.

It’s a child that is desperate to understand the whole world to, as you say, have the right person to solve the problem for its user on demand like that.

So if you can get it to understand who you are, who you serve and why you’re credible. It will recommend you as a solution to their problem because that’s its job, that’s all it’s designed to do, solve people’s problems as efficiently as possible. And if you’re the best solution you get the vote, the person comes to you because the machine’s recommended you.

Roberto Revilla: So you almost want to have this attitude all the time whenever you’re doing anything that’s going to touch Google, which to be fair any content we create that goes on the web, right?

But then having the attitude. So I’ll give an example. So having the attitude of okay I’m going to push this piece of content or press publish on this, I need to make sure that I’m helping Google to understand that this is valuable information for it.

So my assistant has finally discovered ChatGPT. And I said to her, right, here we go, you’re going to be so much more productive.

And she, so she’s now going on websites like, not just slugs. What’s it called?

You know, the web’s most searched questions, blah, blah, blah.

Jason Barnard: Oh, answer the question.

Roberto Revilla: Oh, Answer the Public.

Jason Barnard: Answer the Public.

You’re much better at this than I am.

Roberto Revilla: Exactly. Sorry, I didn’t mean exactly. No, you’re the master. I didn’t mean that.

There was a delay in the Zoom call. So yeah. So we’re just kicking off wedding season. In the tailoring industry, it’s gone absolutely pricking nuts.

And so I said to her, so what we need to do is we need a few more wedding related articles on the blog, but we need them coming from a point of view of trying to help people because a lot of grooms at the moment are asking questions such as can I wear a linen suit to a wedding?

Will it crease blah, blah, blah? You know, what the hell should I wear? Because most of them don’t know when should I order my wedding suit because most of them leave it to the last fricking minute.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, because you only get married once, in theory. 

So you don’t know until you get that in theory.

Roberto Revilla: Exactly in theory. But I think also the other thing I’ve noticed that we’ve got a generation coming through who are getting married, who have got a lot of disposable income, either because our generation of parents are helping them out with everything.

Sometimes when I fill out their address details, Jason, right, and I’m like, where do you live? In whatever road in Hampstead, or Kensington, or St. John’s Wood. And I’m looking and I’m thinking, are you renting?

And they’re like, no, we own it. Okay. Like, you’ve had help. Anyway, right, good luck to them.

We all need to live our best lives.

Jason Barnard: We do.

Roberto Revilla: Anyway, right, the point is, they’re coming in with a lot of disposable income.

And on average, this generation is spending more money on their weddings than any other before certainly my 22 plus year career.

I think part of that is down to Instagram, social media, et cetera because it’s all about looking good in the photos, because that’s the other question they ask a lot.

What colors look best when you’re being photographed, right? What fabrics look best when you’re being photographed?

Jason Barnard: Red.

Roberto Revilla: There we go. Here I am, completely contrasting green. But anyway, so what was the point? Right, so my assistant then used Google, used GPT, et cetera, to sort of, you know, find some questions that would make good article headlines.

And when she published the article, so she got GPT to do the draft, sent it to me, I then made it sound like an actual human because there are terms GPT, et cetera, used that we never ever use in everyday life.

Jason Barnard: Elevate.

Roberto Revilla: Huh?

Jason Barnard: Elevate, it uses elevate.

Roberto Revilla: Elevate, I never say elevate to anyone, right? So once I was happy with it and I’d rewritten it then she published it. And I looked at it and she used our website’s automatic link generator which is gobbledygood. And so I said to her and I was really proud of myself because I think this is probably the way you would do it. I said to her, people are going to be searching for the information within this article. We need to help Google to help them to find the information. So what do you think would have been a better URL to use and so she thought about it for two seconds and she said the title of the article, which in this case is what wedding suit should I wear this season. And so that’s what we change the headlines here to try and help Google out. And so help ourselves out as well. Am I going along the right lines here with my attitudes and how it’s changing to all this sort of thing our approach?

Jason Barnard: Yeah, you are. I mean one thing is the machines are looking for things that information or articles that they can’t currently produce with their own AI so the idea that you will write using ChatGPT or Google Gemini and then just put it on a website. And then Google will use it is not the best approach, because if they could do it for you, then do it for themselves.

They don’t need you. You need to give them extra information. They want information gained. So your expertise needs to go into that article to give them additional information, so they will use it.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, which is exactly what I did. So I used what she produced in GPT as a skeleton, almost. And then I pretty much rewrote it, just sat there on my MacBook, which by the way, everyone listening, we’re going to do an Apple episode soon, fricking fantastic device, and I’ve got a lot to say about those new iPads anyway.

But I used what she produced as a skeleton almost. And I was like, right, okay, fine. And then I rewrote it completely added some extra information in, change of language, etc.

So by the time she got it back, it was pretty different to what she sent me in the first place.

It was helpful to me because with everything I’ve got going on in my life at the moment, I can’t get clear space to write sometimes, and you just need that jumping off point, as it were.

Jason Barnard: Yeah. No, huge, huge time saves, and they kick you off on the job, which is great. But I’m to tell you something that’s going to, I hope blow your mind.

It’s Google is obsessed by understanding people. So the Knowledge Graph we said earlier on Google’s machine-readable encyclopedia contains 54 billion things, people, places, companies, records, events, music groups, films, actors.

In the last year, the number of people it’s identified in its Knowledge Graph, factual information about people has been multiplied by four.

And the rest of the world, companies, music groups, albums, films, podcasts, events hasn’t increased at all. Google is only trying to understand people right now.

It’s doubling down on its understanding people. So it’s quadrupled the number of people that understands and it’s trying to identify who are the content creators?

Who are the people it can trust to create content? And you can see where I’m going with this. Is there looking to figure out are you an expert?

If it can understand who you are and what you’re an expert in, then it can judge that the article you have written is likely to be helpful to its users.

And it also means that if you put your name to something that’s been written by AI, you’re shooting yourself in the foot because the machine will understand that it’s not you who wrote it and you lose the credibility that you managed to gain through the understanding it has and the article you’ve written.

So you can use AI to start an article but if you’re putting your name on it, be very careful that you are giving that information gain, you are rewriting it in your own style.

Because Google has a thing called an Author Vector. And it compresses your article down into a hash, which is just a string of characters.

And it can identify who wrote it. It can identify Shakespeare’s style. It can identify Boston’s style. It can identify myself.

So once it identifies your basic pattern of writing, if you use AI, you will be decredibilizing yourself.

And you’re going to lose the game.

Don’t use AI alone. Use AI as a kickoff point.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. So it’s like, because I’m going to share it with you, I’m so sorry because it popped into my head.

It’s like, I’m Google. And I’m just, I am in this.

Jason Barnard: In your imagination, I see the cartoon going on in your head.

Roberto Revilla: I’m Google. I’m Google. And I decide that Saturday night, I’m going to go to the theater to see a play.

And I’m going to take you with me, Jason Barnard, The Brand SERP Guy. So we’re to see. So we’re going to see some play in the West End and we sit down. The curtain pulls back. At the end of act one, I stand up and I turn around to you and the rest of the audience and I say I wrote that. This is complete full crap. I wrote this play and then the playwright comes out and loses all credibility and people are throwing their popcorn and their ice creams at his head and so on. And that’s it, careers over, done. And I walk out and I’m like I’m not referencing any of that guy’s work ever ever again. It’s kind of the same thing, isn’t it? Because Google or whatever it is knows what it spat out at whatever point in time. It’s not like a human that you get drunk one night and then maybe you forget what you did the day before or as we age, we forget what we did years ago. The machines, it’s all stored ones and zeros in memory banks. They can access that information at any time they want in tens of millions of seconds, probably.

Jason Barnard: 100%. And they have perfect recall and a fact check. One of the huge problems that they have right now is people are criticizing them because they’re not always accurate.

And they get laughed at a lot. But you have to understand it, you don’t have to understand. But if you’re a little bit empathetic, and I talk about empathy for the child, be empathetic to what their problem is.

Their problem is how on earth do we understand an incredibly messy internet? Well, we’re trying to understand different people who have the same name, that’s ambiguity.

How do I identify this Jason Barnard from the Jason Barnard who’s an ice hockey player from the Jason Barnard who’s podcaster from the circus clown in South Africa?

How do I identify which one is being talked about when I see Jason Barnard the name? That’s number one, especially when there are multiple different people and especially when we as human beings are not consistent and not clear.

So from the machine’s perspective, it wants you to help it. And what we do at Kalicube is partially that.

The first step in the Kalicube Process is to look at your digital footprint. And we have a proprietary software that actually analyzes and audits your digital footprint and prioritizes the resources that are out there on the web according to their importance to these machines.

And then we just go through and we clarify all of the information that’s out there about you so that the machine sees that clear, consistent corroboration of the information you’re giving on your entity home, the website, the web page that you own.

If you don’t do that, the machine will never understand. It will think either that I’m the same person as the clown or it will start to split me into multiple people.

It will think, the rock musician is one person, the guy who did the cartoons is another and the guy who’s a digital marketer is another.

And all of a sudden there are three of me in its brain. And obviously that’s not a good thing either.

So the Kalicube Process is foundationally about understanding. We optimize the knowledge sources that these machines use in order that they understand clearly who you are, and we build up their confidence in that, and that they can identify you as part of a particular group of people.

So you as a tailor, me as a digital marketer or an entrepreneur, and they know that you are a tailor and that you will serve people who are looking for a tailor.

You’re not going to serve people looking for Digital Marketing or cartoons or rock groups, but I could potentially serve the three audiences.

But I want to, and that’s the second part, is I want Google to focus on me as a digital marketer.

There’s no point in it sending people to me who want me as a double bass player, because I don’t want to, still do playable bass, but that’s not my primary career.

I don’t want people coming to me to ask me to be a voice actor. I want people coming to me to say I want you to help me with my branding, my marketing online. I want you to future-proof my personal brand and get me more visible to my audience. That’s what I want.

So I have to spend my efforts to make sure that Google, the child, and the other machines as children understand who I am, those three aspects of me and understand which one I want them to focus on right now, which one are my most relevant and helpful and valuable to their users, and that’s Digital Marketing.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. And, you know, I guess Kalicube’s approach to that is helping individuals or organisations to actually control their brand and reign it in.

Because again, if you think of all the facets, you look at you, OK, so a rock musician, you stamp that on the side of one horse.

I don’t know where to put my head. Then we brand another horse. Branding is awful.

Jason Barnard: It is, yeah.

Roberto Revilla: But I mean, but that’s where the word came from, right?

Jason Barnard: Right, very good point.

Roberto Revilla: I just realised, you know, when they used to brand their cattle. And you know burn their mark into so that if the herd strayed I would guess another farmer be like, oh this sheep belong to Jason. I better return them to him. And then you say rock me just an interval, one animator cartoonist into another voice-over artist, on another horse, digital marketer, on another. And so you’ve got five horses right now and the problem is if you don’t control that, they run all over the damn place and people aren’t actually sure which one you are. Whereas if we can pen them in and then say, right, I need you to focus on that stallion over there, the one with the Digital Marketing brand. Don’t focus so much on the others. That’s where we need you to focus and it’s about getting that control in because otherwise and I think that’s what a lot of people in especially when you talk to entrepreneurs who were running either solo businesses going up to sort of SME level because they think very often, and I’ve been guilty of this in the past, they need to be on every platform. Yeah, so I need to be on TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, X, Threads.

I’m sure there are some more that I haven’t even mentioned. The truth is they don’t, but they do anyway, and they don’t do any one of them consistently, and they also aren’t consistent across them either.

And then after a few months or even years, their brand’s identity is all over the place. People looking for them don’t quite know what the hell they’re about.

Do you at Kalicube, no, I’m really sorry for those listening, I’m now really plugging Jason’s business so well. But you are pretty much the only company that takes this approach.

Jason Barnard: Yeah. We are the only company who takes this approach. I invented it.

Roberto Revilla: There we go. What was my question going to be?

Jason Barnard: It was, how do we figure out exactly where you need to be?

Now, what we talk about is the stand where your audience is looking. And as you say, if you’re a tailor and you’re on TikTok and your audience isn’t looking at TikTok, then you’re making a mistake in terms of your audience, you’re wasting your time.

And you’re also confusing the machine. So it’s a pointless exercise from a human being perspective. It’s a waste of time for you.

And it’s confusing for the machine. So what we do when we start working with a client is say, who are the people you want to emulate?

Give me a list of the tailors that you respect. And then we will compile a list of between 50 and 100 what we call entity equivalents, which are a person who’s a tailor in the UK, in your case.

We put them into our machine, our magic machine and queries Google. It goes and gets lots of data from Google to add to the 2 billion data points we’ve already got.

But it’s additional data points that are specific to your cohort. And a cohort is a group of people who are similar and will act in a similar manner.

That’s how Google functions with cohorts. That’s how GA4, Google Analytics 4 functions. It functions by cohort because they can’t track anymore.

So cohorts are the core of what Google’s doing today. And they will say, what our algorithm will do is spit out a list of the platforms you need to be present on in order to be the perfect representation of that specific cohort.

So we would say to you, first, you want to be on Facebook. Second, you want to be on Instagram. Third, you want to be on tailor.com, tailoring website, whatever it might be.

And we’ll give you a list of the places that you need to stand so that you’re standing where your audience is looking, which is valuable.

Your valuable time spent in the right places with the right audience. And it has the benefit of pleasing Google.

Because Google says, right, he’s standing in all of these places. And that means I can understand confidently and clearly that he’s a tailor.

Even if he doesn’t tell me he’s a tailor, I know he’s a tailor because of where he’s standing. And he isn’t standing in all these other places that don’t make sense.

And as soon as somebody creates that confused digital footprint, Google’s saying, is he a tailor? Is he a sports person?

Is he a wedding photographer, I don’t know. All of these different things. Because you created all these profiles, you’ve truly created a problem for yourself.

Wasting your time in the short term, as you said, wasting your time trying to maintain it over time and confusing the machines.

And I see people coming to us all the time saying, oh, I’ve done this, I created 70 social media profiles.

And the first thing we say to them is, that was a huge mistake. We’re now going to go about closing them all.

And it’s not about the quantity of information about you, it’s the quality of the information and how well-focused you are.

And I’ll give you a good example, as I said, that Google now has 54 billion things in its brain.

So I calculated the other day, Wikipedia has 6 million, Google has 54 billion. That’s 9,000 times bigger. And 9,000 doesn’t seem like a lot, unless you think about what that means in terms of multiples. 54 billion, it’s huge. Beyond my imagination, personally, you might be able to imagine it in a cartoon.

Roberto Revilla: I can go to trillions.

Jason Barnard: Oh, right. So you’re going to be on this boat longer than I am.

But we have the lady who runs Kalicube Pro, who does the client work. She’s basically taken what I learned to do, which is educate these machines.

I built Kalicube Pro that automates a lot of the process, uses data to figure out exactly what needs to be done, and she’s taken it to a new level.

And she’s managed to create a Knowledge Panel for herself. A Knowledge Panel is Google’s representation of its understanding of you in the search engine results.

I’ll come back to that. She’s going to Google’s Knowledge Graph. She’s got her article in Google’s Knowledge Vault with three sources.

LinkedIn, our website, and the org.com. And she’s been so clear and concise and simple and focused. The Google’s understood her with a very, very, very, very small digital footprint, literally just three pages.

So don’t go for quantity, go for quality, focus clarity. And now I’ll explain what I mean by Knowledge Panel because that was a bit confusing.

If you search my name, Jason Barnard, J-A-S-O-N B-A-R-N-A-R-D on Google, you will see on the right-hand side a description of me from Google Books.

You’ll see Rand Fishkin. You’ll see Joost de Valk, Cindy Krum, and Kevin Indig. That’s a Knowledge Panel. It shows a description of me, my ex-wife’s name, my mother’s name, my date of birth, and the people Google associates me with.

And Joost de Valk is the guy who built the Yoast SEO plugin for WordPress, installed on 14% of the internet.

So he’s famous and I’m associated with him. That’s brilliant. That Knowledge Panel is Google’s visual representation of the facts it’s understood about me that it has in its pseudo Wikipedia article jam jar in its machine-readable encyclopedia.

That’s what we’re looking for. That’s what we sell and deliver to our clients first and foremost is when Google can show that Knowledge Panel when somebody searches your name, it means it’s understood you. It’s confidently understood you and it’s categorized you with your subtitle when you get that. Mine’s entrepreneur, yours would be tailor. It’s understood who you are and who you serve with great confidence. Because like a child, if the child isn’t confident, it won’t stand in the middle of the playground shouting out the information because it’s worried about being embarrassed by being wrong. And the Knowledge Panel when Google shows these facts on the right hand side on a search on desktop for your name is the equivalent of Google the child standing in the middle of the playground shouting about who you are and how wonderful you are. That’s what you want and that’s what we deliver.

Roberto Revilla: It’s giving Google conviction. Because you think about anything you do in life, if you’re not sure about it, if you’ve got any doubts about it, you either don’t do it or if you do do it, you don’t do it with any form of conviction. No one believes you. So then you lose your authority and your credibility And that’s what we’re trying to help Google to do.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, and then we say Google and then we come back. And I’m repeating ourselves, is all of these machines function the same. They’re all using the same data set. It’s the web. They’re all serving the same users, which is us, human beings trying to serve us, solve our problems or help us solve our problems. They all have the same technology. Nobody’s got completely different technology to the others and they all have the same aim, which is to solve their users’ problems. So they all function the same. So if you’re building a different strategy for each of these machines, Bing, Google, ChatGPT, Perplexity, then you’re getting it wrong and you need to reconsider. And the Kalicube Process, what we do is the single strategy that’s universal, both universal for these machines, but also for our audience, our potential clients, it works for everybody and anybody.

And it’s also timeless. It worked yesterday. I’ve been doing this for 10 years. It was working yesterday. It still works today and it will work into the future.

I have no fear of the future because these machines right now are simplistic. They learn by repetition, which is what we do.

They’re going to get smarter and smarter and smarter and smarter. I’m confident that if we have that foundational information in their brains as they start to get smarter, as they grow up and become teenagers, then they go to university and they start to outsmart us human beings.

That’s called singularity. If they have a foundational knowledge that they’re incredibly confident in that we have provided, they will trust us when we tell them additional things. If we don’t have that, they’re not going to trust as we will have lost control completely. Self-determination, forget it.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, there’s a whole other conversation I can get into with you, which I went today.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, let’s stick to today.

Roberto Revilla: I was out at talk with the, I think at that time he was the single most-funded human being in the area of artificial intelligence research.

I can’t remember his name. It’s really embarrassing. Probably doesn’t listen to this podcast, it’s fine. But obviously that question naturally came up, The SkyNet question that everybody asked.

And I turned around and I said, we’re sat in a coffee shop. You look across, there’s a machine gun on the table.

It’s just a machine gun. There’s no one around it. No one’s touching it. It’s just a machine gun on the table.

How do you feel? It’s a bit weird. There’s a machine gun over there, but okay, okay, fine. Now someone walks over and picks the thing up and starts waving it around.

Now, how do you feel?

Now I’m starting to feel a bit threatened and worried for my life. Exactly. In my view, at that time, these things are tools.

It’s how we wield them that makes the difference between whether they’re quote unquote evil or they’re for the greater good.

And I, you know, having my happy-go-lucky, trying-to-see-the-best-in-everything-and-everyone way of life, you know, and also I think you’ve hopefully really helped and inspire people listening today who see things like Bing, Google, search engines basically as evil because they’re owned by evil corporations that want to get as much data about as possible, which is probably true.

But actually seeing them as these innocent beings that want to learn from us and want to get better, want to improve in order to help us.

I think it’s such a lovely way to start looking at this whole new world that we’re all entering into.

And that we have to embrace, because it’s not going anywhere.

Jason Barnard: No, 100%. And the idea that they want to get it right, the only reason they get it wrong is because they haven’t understood.

And the reason they don’t understand is because we’re not clear.

So it actually comes down to us. And people who say, well, Google should understand. Why Google doesn’t understand because you’re not clear.

It’s your responsibility to clean up your little corner of the internet. That’s what I believe. And if you don’t do it, that’s fine.

It’s up to you, but don’t expect the machine to understand. You want to take control. If you want to have control, you need to take control today.

And taking control today is your best chance of having control or a level of control in the future. Once even machines have understood what they’ve understood, right or wrong, it’s going to be really fixed down in their brain.

You don’t forget as an adult what you learned as a child. Let’s take this opportunity to teach the child why it’s still a child, because the child is still learning by simple repetition and corroboration.

In the future, it’s going to start extrapolating. It’s going to take cohorts, it’s going to identify incredibly detailed cohorts and start guessing at things about you without you telling it.

That’s when you need to be, and this is the geeky part, you need to be in exactly the right cohort in its brain, because otherwise it’s going to guess wrong.

So philosophically speaking, my perspective here is I’ve got a good grip on number one, I’ve got the best grip that I’ve seen on understanding today, controlling these machines today, but I also have, I hope or I believe the best chance of helping my clients’ control in the future when the machine gets really smart.

That’s obviously way down the road and you can think well I can worry about that tomorrow, but think about two years ago, even a year ago or a year and a half ago, ChatGPT wasn’t common. So you didn’t even think about the conversations. And now you’re frustrated with ChatGPT. When you ask it, the MySQL query for selecting 15,000 rows from this database, very geeky question, the MySQL query for selecting 50, why are you repeating it?

A year ago, I was terribly pleased I was watching it. It was a lot of fun. Now I’m really frustrated.

It just doesn’t give me the answer. And it shows how quickly we adapt as human beings. And how fast these machines are advancing.

ChatGPT is suddenly normal. In a year’s time, potentially, we’ve got, they’re now creating videos, potentially it’s going to answer you with a video, but it’s just created on the fly.

Who knows? Don’t think that you can put off to tomorrow that foundational understanding of these machines, have you can’t or you shouldn’t.

And don’t leave it to luck. Why would you let Google decide, oh, I’ve got a good analogy for that, which is fun as well, is would you let your mother pick your clothes to wear when you’re going to the high school party? Of course you wouldn’t. That’s what you’re letting Google, that Google picks your clothes.

And Google’s got no taste. If you tell it which clothes you want to wear, it will let you wear them.

If you don’t tell it, it will pick them for you. It’s your mother on the way to the high school party and she really is going to embarrass you.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. I mean, my mom wasn’t actually that bad because she was always quite a classy dresser.

Jason Barnard: I’m sorry to your mother. I hope she doesn’t watch this.

Roberto Revilla: I don’t know. I don’t think she does anyway. But putting myself, because I’m an empath, into the shoes of most of my friends who are mothers would probably create disasters out of them.

Yeah, that’s the perfect analogy. And I think the perfect, I could just go on and on with you. You absolutely, you’ve not just blown my mind today, Jason.

Just as I was putting it back together, you just blow it again. It’s like you just keep sticking sticks of dynamite and lighting them up in there like one of those ACME, you know, cartoons, know, the Looney Tunes ones.

Isn’t it ACME, the company, they always have the dynamite in?

Jason Barnard: I used to do my reputation management presentations using ACME. And having lots of, I did search engine result pages that I made up with ACME stuff, but actually there are lots of companies called ACME, so you actually can just copy paste them.

But I’ll end with one thing, which is your personal brand is what Google says it is. Your personal brand is what ChatGPT says it is.

Your personal brand is what Bing Copilot says it is. You’re in a situation now when the internet is so omnipresent, so universal.

You talk to people directly, but people will still go and Google you. Your personal brand is what Google says it is.

Full stop. Take control today.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, and I’ll second that because they’re funny enough, a French agency that we do work with, just at low level just to control Google my business stuff. And they said, and when I thought about it, I was in total agreement because I do it myself most of the time.

They said, your actual Google profile, the information available when someone Googles you is more important than your website.

Jason Barnard: Yeah.

Roberto Revilla: In the context of, you know, being too worried about having fancy pictures and all this nonsense, because most people when they Google you, I think the statistic at the time was that 60% of people who find you online, if they decide what they like from what they see on Google, they’ll hit the call button, they won’t even bother going to your website.

Jason Barnard: Yeah, 100%. Yeah, and that’s exactly is people use Google because they trust Google. People use ChatGPT because they trust ChatGPT.

They are the biggest influence in the world. They are machines that people are using to solve their problems. And then you’re using a specific machine, a specific assistive engine or search engine because they trust it.

So they’re gonna trust the result that the machine spits out for you. And the last thing is a lot of people feel that this is too complicated, that it’s out of their control.

It’s not out of your control. And it’s not complicated. What I’ve explained today is all you have to do.

Entity home, consistent corroboration around the web that’s clear and factually correct. And you link from your entity home out to all the corroborative sources and from the corroborative sources back to your entity home to the website.

At that point, Google, the child goes from your website to the corroboration, sees the same information comes back, goes out to the next one, sees the same corroboration, same information and comes back, so on and so forth.

And it learns by repetition. Getting Google to understand who you are, what you do, which audience you serve, which photos to use, which facts to present, which social media profiles it should be showing when somebody searches your name. All of that is to do is based on your entity home, your control. It’s up to you.

And none of this, none of what I just said is even a little bit geeky. It’s simple. Anybody can do it.

Don’t hesitate. Do it now. Yeah, that sounded like an advert, didn’t it?

Roberto Revilla: Well, I’m now actually going to do the plug. So that brings me neatly in too. Well, the thing is on your on Kalicube’s website, so kalicube.com, K-A-L-I-C-U-B-E kalicube.com, Jason and his team have a lot of downloadable resources that you can just go, you know, you don’t have to give any money or anything.

It’s again, he’s an educator. That’s the ethos of their brand. And you can go download and read up on more of this stuff.

If you’d like to book a call with Jason or any of his team at Kalicube, you can do that at kalicube.com as well. Just hit the contact button and then you can fill out the form and lovely people there will get in touch with you.

They don’t bite. You can even book a 15-minute chat with Jason and you wouldn’t, who wouldn’t want to.

I want to talk to you all over again.

Jason Barnard: And you may.

Roberto Revilla: And yeah. And for any of my audience, you have got their own podcast and there are a few of you.

If you want to book Jason, I’m guessing you’re really getting into guesting on podcast because this is also helping to build your digital footprint, online credibility in the space of your area of expertise, Digital Marketing, isn’t it?

Jason Barnard: I’m obsessed by the consistency of that. I’ve done maybe 200 guest appearances and I’m obsessed by the consistency of that.

Every time somebody talks about me on their podcast and the show notes, I make sure, my team makes sure that they’re saying the same thing that we’re saying on the entity home.

It’s a huge job. It’s an ongoing job. It’s a job that never stops. And as you said, I’m an educator.

And we share everything on the website. You can do it all for free. Everything we know is out there, and it’s for free because we understand, number one, that this is universal.

Number two, that it’s valuable and hugely powerful and important. And number three, I can’t serve 6 billion people. What I can do is help the people who understand that their time has immense value to them and their business and they can pass over the responsibility, the time, the frustration and the skill set to make me and my team, and we will do it more effectively, more efficiently, more profitably.

We’ll get more leverage and we’ll take all of the weight off your shoulders. You don’t need to think about it.

Not everybody has the money to pay for that. It’s a question of time or money. If you’ve got more time, go and do it for free.

Download the free guides. It’s free, read them, implement them, do it yourself. I’m absolutely happy. Because like with Boowa and Kwala, we’re talking earlier on. I want to help. I really, truly want to help. And that’s my foundational. It’s what I’ve always done. It’s who I am.

It’s who I’ve always been. And it makes me happy.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. I couldn’t think of a better way to end.

Jason Barnard: Brilliant.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah, you’d be like, like, if we were at a gathering and then it was time to go, and, you know, you’d be the one person it’d be like, my wife would be like, you said you were going like two hours ago, you’ll still take the talking to Jason.

And she’s like, yeah, can we just stay a bit longer? Jason, thank you so, so much. Have you had fun today? 

Jason Barnard: I did. It was brilliant. I really loved it because it was, my team have told me to stop talking so much about the future.

And today I felt I was allowed to because you integrated the future into the present and into the practical.

So we talked a lot about the future. We talked a lot about geeky machines that people are using, but don’t really think about enough.

But we weaved in, you helped me weave in what we can do today, why we need to do it today and how it will help us today because today it’s still Google. But it is also ChatGPT. But also critically in order to get these machines to represent you the way you want, you have to walk the walk with your audience. So you have to be standing where they’re looking. You have to demonstrate your credibility to them. You have to provide the solution to them wherever they’re hanging out online: YouTube, LinkedIn, Forbes, tailor.com, whatever that might be. If you’re walking the walk, the machines will simply replicate what they’re seeing you do, satisfying, helping, engaging with your audience. So the machines become an extension of your personal brand, which is you’re running incredibly or you’re building incredibly powerfully with your audience. And I’ll leave you with a number. 80% of Kalicube business comes not from Google because we’re walking the walk on YouTube, LinkedIn, Forbes.com, Search Engine Land and our own website.

80% of the business we get comes from that work, which is with human beings, faced with human beings. Google simply replicates it and gives us a bonus of 20%. Brilliant.

Oh, and it confirms at the bottom of the funnel, when somebody’s engaged with us on YouTube, they search my name, they see the Google search result, they don’t visit the site, they just book the meeting.

And that’s brilliant, because they trust Google.

Roberto Revilla: And that, I can second that. Sorry, usually when I say if you had fun today, don’t worry, because that’s absolutely freaking brilliant.

Jason Barnard: And you complimented me as well, thank you.

Roberto Revilla: And you were right in absolutely everything that you said. And then I do my outro, but I will second what you just said, because actually since we started, so I took the dust covers off our YouTube channel about a year ago. I’m so proud because I’ve now got 388 subscribers, Youtube.

And then we started to feed the podcast out to YouTube as well. And I was shocked at how many people listen to all the audio-only versions of podcasts on YouTube. And now, we’ve started to put the video versions out as well. But that’s exactly it.

So 80% of our businesses repeat referral recommendation from our existing audience. The other 20% is the bonus stuff, like you say.

When I’m like, oh my god, I’m so busy this week. I haven’t followed up with anyone.

I haven’t called some of my clients to find out if they need me this summer.

But we just get bonus appointments, like every single day. And when I talk to them, I say to them, how did you find me?

And it’s always something like, I can’t remember exactly where, but I follow you on YouTube. I watch your Instagram reels.

And then I think eventually I probably just Googled you. And then that’s how we ended up here today.


Jason Barnard: Yeah. I think what Bing and Google, what you just said is actually really powerful in the sense that how many, I get the same thing.

People say, I’m on this meeting because I’ve researched the topic of Knowledge Panels. I’ve researched the topic of personal branding on Google.

I’ve researched the topic of entity optimization on Google. Your name and that red shirt, just keep appearing. You’re obviously the guy for this.

I’m on the meeting because you are omnipresent, because you’re always there. Nobody says, I searched once on Google for, how do I manage my personal brand?

I clicked on your link and I booked a meeting. That never happens. Google isn’t a platform that will send you the convinced client just from one search.

But it is part of the journey. If you consider it as part of the journey, you’re winning all the way because you’ll get that 80-20 split.

And that is great business, great personal branding and it works and it’s timeless.

Roberto Revilla: Yeah. Because I always get people that rather cynically, they’ll be like, are you still doing the podcast? Because they know I started it during the pandemic, because there’s another way to try and get into the ears of my clients that had all bought dogs and we’re walking them.

They wouldn’t pick up the phone. I say to him, yeah, I’m still doing a podcast. We’re like 160, 170 episodes in or something.

And how’s that going? Do you make any money out of it? Well, yes and no, because I don’t make money out of it per se.

If that’s, you’re just looking at it from a brutalistic, you spend time on that, does it produce revenue? No, it bloody doesn’t.

But it’s part of a multifaceted, because I don’t know what, I don’t know how people connect with me and how they stay tuned in to me and how they keep me front of mind.

Some people, it’s because they listen to the podcast. Some of our clients, it’s a newsletter that goes out on Fridays.

Some people, it’s a YouTube channel now. Some people, it’s my Instagram Reels. Some people rely on me to pick up the phone and call them the old-fashioned way every six months.

You just don’t know. We’re all different. We all connect with each other differently. We all stay connected in different ways.

We all engage in different ways. And it’s just part of a multifaceted approach to just trying to connect with people, coming from a place of wanting to help people because like you, I can’t help every single person on the planet.

There are people who do value their time and have got the money to use someone like me to take care of all of their headaches, with you it’s Digital Marketing, with me it’s clothing and the image, etc. There are people who don’t have the money to use me would love to work with me but they can’t and I can’t because of you know obvious business principle type stuff. But at least if I can help them with any other content I’m creating, whether it’s the podcast episode like this and you have been the most wonderful guest today, thank you so so much. Whether it’s a video I create on Youtube. It’s an Instagram Short or an article that I write, if I’ve helped one person with that piece of content, it was worth doing. And that’s how I try to live my life and I know that’s how you live yours and that’s why I was excited to have you on the show today. I’m so glad that we met and connected. You are a special individual and I hope we keep in touch and I hope everyone listening today reaches out, connects with you, follows you, seeks you out because you are truly what you say you are.

You’re the number one. You are the master of your art and the number of people that you’re having impact on has got to be phenomenal.

I hope it is. So thank you.

Jason Barnard: Wow, that was brilliant. I love that. That makes me feel terribly, terribly pleased. I’m now jigging around like a…

Roberto Revilla: Now sing me a song, Jason. No, I’m kidding. I won’t make you do that.

Jason Barnard: A quick goodbye to end the show. Thank you, Roberto.

Roberto Revilla: See, I can move into the usual outro. Make sure you connect with Jason. Really, really important if you know anybody who could get some help from what

Jason taught us today, make sure you hit that share link and send this on to that person. And to connect with Jason follow all the links that I’m going to put into the show notes. And if you want to support the show, you can hit the support the show link in the show notes. Have a great week. Be good to each other and I’ll catch you on the next one.

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