Thumbnail: Learn How to Tackle Generative AI in Search – With Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard from Kalicube shares that generative AI also impacting search results and what to do about it.

Featured Guest:

Jason Barnard


SEO Insights for 2024: Expert Tips from Jason Barnard and David Bain

Jason Barnard [00:00:00]: Hello, I am Jason Barnard and this is.

Jason Barnard [00:00:02]: SEO in 2024 with David Bain and Majestic.

David Bain [00:00:12]: Jason, what’s your number one SEO tip for 2024?

Expert Tips on Navigating Generative AI in Google and Bing Search Dynamics

Jason Barnard [00:00:16]: I’d love to give lots of tips about generative AI in search, Google search, generative experience and Bing chat.

David Bain [00:00:23]: Okay, so not many people talk about Bing as well. What’s the difference between Google and Bing when it comes to generative AI?

Jason Barnard [00:00:30]: Interestingly enough, not very much presentation it comes down to, but they both function more or less the same way. And Gary leaders said a few months ago, search engines function more or less the same way, and that remains true today.

Leveraging Bing’s Insights for Google’s Generative AI Strategy

Jason Barnard [00:00:45]: So what we can learn from Bing, we can apply in a great chunk to Google as well.

David Bain [00:00:53]: Okay, so that’s good. We don’t necessarily have to do anything too different there. But how do SEOs prepare for generative AI?

Jason Barnard [00:01:00]: Right, well, first question is, what is generative AI? How does it work?

Jason Barnard on the Essence of Google’s SERPs: Summaries and Recommendations

Jason Barnard [00:01:06]: And the answer to that question is.

Jason Barnard [00:00:59]: It’s simply a summary in Google’s case.

Jason Barnard [00:01:10]: Of its knowledge and its recommendations. So what it does is it takes the SERP, the Search Engine Results Page.

Streamlining Information Access: The Dynamic Knowledge Panel and Its Role in Summarizing Entity Data

Jason Barnard [00:01:17]: Its Knowledge Panel and the recommendations on the left, and it summarizes all of that.

Jason Barnard [00:01:24]: To save the user the time of jumping between multiple websites to gather the information themselves. So what I’m now talking about is this is a dynamic Knowledge Panel, because a Knowledge Panel serves that same purpose, to summarize information about an entity. So in order to understand how search.

Jason Barnard [00:01:44]: generative experience is going to work.

Understanding Search Engines’ Summary and Follow-Up Questions Strategy According to Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard [00:01:46]: You need to understand how Google and Bing indeed are summarizing their own SERPs. And then what questions do they then suggest as follow up questions to keep the conversation going with the user? And so what they are doing is.

Jason Barnard [00:02:02]: Saying, well, here’s a summary, here are some questions.

Initiating Conversations to Guide Users Through the Conversion Funnel

Jason Barnard [00:02:01]: Let’s start a conversation. And what that conversation does, and Fabrice Canel from Bing pointed this out to me

Jason Barnard [00:02:11]: is bring the user down the

Jason Barnard [00:02:14]: Funnel to the point where they’re ready to buy, at which point they send the user to the website where they can buy.

Unveiling the Missing Pieces in Today’s Knowledge Panels

David Bain [00:02:22]: So that’s a lovely snapshot there, a lovely way to describe it there, and next generation Knowledge Panel there as well. What elements are missing from the current Knowledge Panel compared with what you’re describing?

Jason Barnard [00:02:36]: Well, the current Knowledge Panel is a statement of facts. So what Google is doing with the Knowledge Panel for your company or yourself is saying, these are the facts I’ve understood. Here’s a description that I’m confident is true. Here are the related entities in people also search for. Here are the social media platforms that.

Jason Barnard Discusses On-the-Fly Summaries with Search Generative Experience

Jason Barnard [00:02:52]: This person is on.

Jason Barnard [00:02:54]: So it’s giving you a summary of the person or the company and the.

Jason Barnard [00:02:20]: Search generative experience does that on the fly.

Initiating Conversations with Dynamic Knowledge Panels

Jason Barnard [00:03:01]: Instead of pulling it all out of the Knowledge Graph and then also offers you the opportunity for a conversation. So it’s a conversational, dynamic Knowledge Panel.

David Bain [00:03:10]: So how do you initiate that conversation? Because it sounds like once you’re in that conversation, that’s the opportunity. As long as you do the conversation right, then you’ve got a good opportunity to get the business. So how do you start things?

Understanding Your Funnel: How to Guide Your Audience Through Google and Bing’s SERPs

Jason Barnard [00:03:22]: Right, that’s a really great question, because from that perspective, what you need to do is make sure that Google and Bing.

Jason Barnard [00:03:29]: Understand your funnel and how to bring your audience down their funnel or their SERP.

Educating Machines on Your Brand Identity and Audience for SERP Replication

Jason Barnard [00:03:39]: So what you need to do is educate these machines about who you are, what you do, which audience you serve, and what your funnel looks like so.

Jason Barnard [00:03:48]: That they can replicate it on the SERP.

Embracing the Inevitable Evolution of Search Engines According to Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard [00:03:50]: And it feels like you’re giving away control to Google and Bing, which you are. It doesn’t feel fair, but you’re not gonna change how they’re going to

Jason Barnard [00:03:58]: Evolve and I’m afraid we’re gonna

Jason Barnard [00:04:01]: Have to bite the bullet and do it. Which means ensuring that the funnel that

Replicating Your Brand’s Narrative on SERPs

Jason Barnard [00:04:06]: They recreate on the SERP is the

Jason Barnard [00:04:09]: Same as, or as close to the

Jason Barnard [00:04:11]: Same as possible to the one that

Jason Barnard [00:04:14]: You have on your own website and within your own organization.

Leveraging Generative AI to Enhance Search Engine Comprehension of Your Marketing Funnel

David Bain [00:04:18]: So is there anything that you need to do different now to your funnel to help search engines understand it from a generative AI perspective?

Jason Barnard [00:04:26]: What we found with clients is it’s actually hugely helpful because as soon as I say to them, what is your funnel? How does it work? What are the questions that people ask.

Clarifying the Funnel: How Businesses Can Guide Users and Search Engines Through Their Journey

Jason Barnard [00:04:34]: As they go down the funnel? The business tells me, right, and then.

Jason Barnard [00:04:40]: They explain it and it’s never very clear. So what it forces people to do is identify what their funnel looks like, what the questions are, who the personas are, and then lay it out on the website in an easily digestible manner. And that helps both the user who comes to their website from another platform, such as Facebook or Twitter or medium or wherever it might be, but also helps the search engines understand. So the search engines can assist, let’s say assistive engines, bring that user down the funnel. And don’t ever forget that users on Google are Google’s users. They might be your audience, but when they’re using Google, they are Google’s users.

Google’s Endorsement of Your Content to Your Target Audience

Jason Barnard [00:05:17]: And Google is recommending you to the subset of its users who are your audience. So what I found is this new.

Jason Barnard [00:05:26]: Experience forces brands and companies to create the content that their users, or, sorry.

Identifying and Addressing Audience Needs in the Funnel and Beyond

Jason Barnard [00:05:31]: Their audience need and want in the funnel and post funnel and set it out clearly on their website.

Jason Barnard [00:05:39]: And it’s hugely helpful because most businesses.

Jason Barnard [00:05:41]: Don’t really know what their funnel looks like.

Enhancing Funnel Clarity with Breadcrumbs, Internal Linking, and Schema Markup

David Bain [00:05:44]: And I’m just trying to understand what that funnel education process looks like. I mean, are we talking about making great use of breadcrumbs, better internal linking, better use of navigational headlines throughout the funnel process? Is there any coding behind that as well? Such a schema that helps the search engine to understand which stage of the funnel that they happen to be on?

Jason Barnard [00:06:09]: Yeah, which is a great question, everything you just said.

Jason Barnard’s Insightful Approach to FAQ Optimization: One Page, One Question, Simple Answers

Jason Barnard [00:06:12]: Yes, but the big chunk of work is your FAQ.

Jason Barnard [00:06:16]: One question answer per page. Simple answer to a simple question. Every single question you can think of that your audience might be asking.

Jason Barnard [00:06:24]: FAQ schema markup.

Jason Barnard on the True Purpose of Schema Markup Beyond Rich Snippets

Jason Barnard [00:06:27]: Not to have the rich snippets in the SERP, but to make sure that Google is confident it’s understood. And that’s a huge, huge point about Schema markup. Google’s been giving us a carrot, which is you can get the stars or

Jason Barnard [00:06:38]: The accordions in the SERP, but the

Boosting Search Engine Confidence with Schema Markup as Supporting Evidence

Jason Barnard [00:06:42]: Truth is Schema markup is there to translate what you’re saying in the page into Google’s native language. Schema is Google and Bing’s native language. So the role of schema is to reassure the machine that it’s fully understood what it’s already seen in the page. So Schema markup is supporting evidence. It’s reassurance, it’s confidence building in the content you’ve got and the content that you currently have. I will bet my bottom dollar your

Jason Barnard [00:07:09]: FAQ is way too small.

Enhancing the FAQ Strategy to Address Every Stage of the Customer Journey

Jason Barnard [00:07:11]: Doesn’t answer even 5% of the questions that people ask on the way down

Jason Barnard [00:07:15]: The funnel or post funnel.

David Bain [00:07:18]: That makes complete sense that you’re advocating a much better use of FAQ. So obviously, I would imagine linked FAQ page directly, listing page directly from the home page, and then you’re advocating one page per question. Is there formatting within each set of questions that you would recommend to demonstrate that the stage of the funnel that the question is likely to relate to?

Tailoring FAQs to Guide Users Through the Purchase Journey with the Kalicube Process

Jason Barnard [00:07:49]: Yes, you can clearly describe within the FAQ where you feel the user is in the funnel, by the way, that you word what you’re saying. Am I talking to somebody who hardly knows who I am or somebody who knows who I am and is ready to buy, or somebody who’s already bought? And the thing about the FAQ is we’re now integrating it into every single client that we’re working with on the Kalicube Process.

Jason Barnard [00:08:17]: And the Kalicube Process is the idea of saying, let’s create knowledge in Google’s brain understanding.

Leveraging the Kalicube Process for Relevant Recommendations and Generative AI Efficacy

Jason Barnard [00:08:25]: Let’s make sure the recommendations about my company are relevant and helpful to my audience. Those two together will feed into generative AI as long as we’re answering all the questions down the funnel.

Jason Barnard [00:08:37]: And that’s what the Kalicube Process does.

Jason Barnard on the Impact of Generative AI in Understanding Google’s Knowledge, Recommendations, and SERP Assessments

Jason Barnard [00:08:39]: It nails knowledge, recommendations and Google’s summary of its own results, which is its assessment and judgment of the SERP. And if you’re a brand that’s hugely important.

Jason Barnard [00:08:53]: What does Google truly think of you?

Jason Barnard [00:08:55]: That’s what you get in generative AI.

Enhancing Branded Search with Jason Barnard’s FAQ Strategy

Jason Barnard [00:08:57]: For your Branded Search.

David Bain [00:08:59]: So harping on about this FAQ page, other sections within the questions that you would perhaps use subheadings for minor h tags for, to demonstrate that each of those questions probably relate to a particular subsection. And also, is there a maximum or minimum number of questions that you recommend within an FAQ section?

Jason Barnard on Crafting Concise Responses to Simple Questions

Jason Barnard [00:09:26]: Right.

Jason Barnard [00:09:27]: Okay, that’s a great question. The thing is with headings, because we’re saying give a short, succinct, quick answer.

Jason Barnard [00:09:34]: To a simple question, you’re not gonna

Creating Multiple Authors on a WordPress Blog: Why and How

Jason Barnard [00:09:36]: have lots of headings. So that isn’t something that you can apply. I mean, if you’re using a mobile phone and you’ve ever searched for something.

Jason Barnard [00:09:43]: Like multiple authors on a WordPress blog, and then it starts with, do you want to create multiple authors on a WordPress blog?

Jason Barnard [00:09:52]: Why would I want to create multiple.

Streamlining Author Management on WordPress Blogs

Jason Barnard [00:09:54]: Authors on a WordPress blog?

Jason Barnard [00:09:56]: What is the technical implication of creating? And it’s got all this stuff and I’m scrolling through saying I just want to know how to do it. I don’t want all that introductory information that typically SEOs have created to create that context. I already know what I want. I just want the answer to the.

Jason Barnard on Essential Plugins for Crafting Succinct FAQs

Jason Barnard [00:10:11]: Question which is what plugin do I need?

Jason Barnard [00:10:11]: And from that perspective, the FAQs are

Jason Barnard [00:10:16]: Gonna be short.

Jason Barnard [00:10:16]: And they can be as short as a 100 words. I’ve had FAQs ranking above Apple for a tiny french company with just 100 words.

Categorization Mastery: The Key to FAQ Success According to Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard [00:10:26]: The trick is to categorize correctly.

Jason Barnard [00:10:25]: So to your question about different levels of the funnel, you can potentially say, well, each stage of the funnel would be in a specific category that I can give a descriptive name that makes sense to my users. And I would also do another thing which is have two main categories, one of which is branded questions and the other of which is generic questions about my topic. And then you build them out with multiple categories. And you make sure that when you

Jason Barnard on Creating an Infinitely Scalable Categorization System

Jason Barnard [00:10:53]: Start, you identify all of the different

Jason Barnard [00:10:56]: Categories and that it’s infinitely scalable. There is never a question that you will be answering that does not fit into one of the categories that

Jason Barnard [00:11:05]: You created right at the start.

Strategic Foresight: Balancing Blogging with an Evolving FAQ Section

Jason Barnard [00:11:06]: And that means thinking ahead and really thinking this through.

David Bain [00:11:05]: So in 2024, should you bin the blog and just go for an evolving FAQ section instead?

Jason Barnard [00:11:19]: No, I wouldn’t bin the blog, but

Emphasizing the Role of FAQs and Blogs in Content Strategy for 2023-2024

Jason Barnard [00:11:22]: I would focus on the FAQ at least 2023, 2024.

Jason Barnard [00:11:27]: And the blog has its own need or its own role, which is if I want to delve into a topic.

Jason Barnard [00:11:37]: I would need, let’s say 1000, 2000 words. If I want a short, a quick answer to a simple question, I need 100, 200 words. If I want to dig into a topic, I need a 1000 words, 2000 words.

Delving Deeper into Topics with Jason Barnard: From Blogs to Books and Comprehensive Guides

Jason Barnard [00:11:48]: That’s a blog.

Jason Barnard [00:11:49]: If I really want to dig into.

Jason Barnard [00:11:50]: A topic, I’ll buy a book or download a PDF, white paper, and that’s 8000 words.

Embracing Generative AI with Kalicube’s Expert Resources

Jason Barnard [00:11:56]: And that’s how we work at Kalicube. We’ve got FAQ, we’ve got blog, and.

Jason Barnard [00:12:00]: We’ve got white papers and books.

David Bain [00:12:03]: Is Generative AI gonna kill SEO?

Adapting SEO within a Comprehensive Digital Marketing Strategy

Jason Barnard [00:12:06]: No, but SEOs are gonna have to adapt.

Jason Barnard [00:12:08]: And the fact of the matter now.

Jason Barnard [00:12:10]: Is you need to create a Digital Marketing strategy that covers all of the

Positioning Your Content Across Diverse Channels to Capture Audience Attention and Optimize for Google

Jason Barnard [00:12:18]: Different channels where your users hang out. You need to stand where the audience is looking. Facebook Medium, LinkedIn, Forbes You need to then package whatever content you’ve created on all of these different.

Jason Barnard [00:12:17]: Platforms, package it for Google and create

Leveraging Website Content for SEO to Guide Your Audience Through the Purchase Funnel

Jason Barnard [00:12:36]: The content on your website. That helps Google and Bing bring your.

Jason Barnard [00:12:40]: Audience down your funnel on their platform to buy.

Jason Barnard [00:12:40]: So there’s an enormous amount of SEO work to do. But SEOs are gonna have to.

Embracing SEO as an Integral Component of a Broader Digital Marketing Strategy

Jason Barnard [00:12:50]: Learn that SEO is no longer a

Jason Barnard [00:12:52]: Standalone, it’s necessarily part of a wider Digital Marketing strategy. And SEO, in my opinion, is simply

Jason Barnard [00:13:00]: Packaging great branding, great marketing for Google and Bing.

Mastering Your Presence: Focusing on Key Platforms Where Your Audience Engages

David Bain [00:13:04]: And do you need to be everywhere or do you just need to do a great job at one or two locations for your content?

Jason Barnard [00:12:59]: That’s a hugely interesting question because we have the Kalicube Pro platform that does exactly. This is, yes, you don’t have to be everywhere. You have to be where your audience is looking. You need to stand where they’re looking. And what we do at Kalicube Pro is we analyze your digital ecosystem.

Analyzing Your Market’s Digital Footprint to Focus Efforts on the Right Platforms

Jason Barnard [00:13:30]: Then we analyze your market’s digital footprint, as it were.

Jason Barnard [00:13:29]: So we can identify where that audience is hanging out and we can focus your efforts, your marketing efforts on the platforms that make sense to your audience and ensure that you’re creating the right content that helps your audience understand that you have the solution to their problem. So you need to stand where they’re

Jason Barnard’s Strategy: Showcase Your Solutions and Guide the Next Steps

Jason Barnard [00:13:55]: Looking, show them you have the solution

Jason Barnard [00:13:57]: To their problem, and then tell them what to do next

Jason Barnard [00:13:59]: Come to my website and

Discovering the Right Platform with Jason Barnard’s Expert Guidance

Jason Barnard [00:14:03]: I will sell you or provide you

Jason Barnard [00:14:05]: For free with the solution.

David Bain [00:14:07]: So how do you know whether or not to use a platform?

Leveraging Kalicube Pro to Navigate Market Dominance by Platforms like Facebook

Jason Barnard [00:14:09]: You can look in Kalicube Pro at the market template. And if Facebook is dominating your market.

Jason Barnard [00:14:14]: You focus on Facebook.

Prioritizing Social Media Platforms Based on Market Dominance with Jason Barnard’s Strategy

Jason Barnard [00:14:16]: If LinkedIn is dominating your market, you focus on LinkedIn, and we prioritize it. So what we will do is give you six major platforms that you can potentially focus on, and then you can say, well, I don’t have the team to do that.

Jason Barnard [00:14:27]: Let’s just focus on the top three.

Prioritizing Quality Over Quantity in Task Management

Jason Barnard [00:14:29]: So you need to make sure you do each job properly.

Jason Barnard [00:14:32]: So it’s better to focus heavily on.

Jason Barnard [00:14:34]: Three, do the job properly, than do.

Jason Barnard on the Pitfalls of Overstaffing

Jason Barnard [00:14:36]: A bad job on six.

Jason Barnard [00:14:38]: And it’s even worse, obviously, to do.

Jason Barnard [00:14:40]: A bad job on ten.

Jason Barnard [00:14:41]: I can’t imagine any company needing to.

Diversifying Your Online Presence Across Multiple Platforms

Jason Barnard [00:14:43]: Be on ten different platforms.

David Bain [00:14:45]: And is there anywhere else online that someone can find out for free if

Jason Barnard [00:14:50]: They’re not on Kalicube Pro?

Discover Free Tools on Kalicube Pro to Identify Dominant Platforms and Simplify Your Brand SERP Management

Jason Barnard [00:14:52]: Yeah, and we’ve got lots of free tools on Kalicube Pro. So you go in and you can.

Jason Barnard [00:14:56]: Have a look at which platforms are dominating very generally.

Jason Barnard [00:15:00]: And also, I mean, the simpliest, the free, simple way of doing it is to use

Leveraging Human Intuition and Intelligence in Brand SERP Analysis

Jason Barnard [00:15:05]: Your human intuition and intelligence.

Jason Barnard [00:15:09]: And that means search your own brand name and look which platforms come up on pages one, two and three. Then search your competitors and just look

Jason Barnard [00:15:16]: At page one and see what the correlation and correspondence is between them. And by looking at 20 competitors, just

Identifying Patterns in Brand SERPs: The Dominance of LinkedIn According to Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard [00:15:26]: Looking at them one after the other.

Jason Barnard [00:15:27]: You’ll probably see repetition and you’ll begin

Jason Barnard [00:15:31]: To see, well, LinkedIn is dominating. I keep seeing LinkedIn, therefore I should focus on LinkedIn because that is what

Leveraging Google’s Insights for Market Dominance According to Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard [00:15:36]: Google perceives to be the most valuable.

Jason Barnard [00:15:39]: Platform for the majority of your market. So you can do it by hand for free.

Jason Barnard [00:15:45]: Just look at 20 competitors.

Prioritizing SEO Efforts in 2024: What to Drop and Where to Focus According to Jason Barnard

David Bain [00:15:47]: If an SEO is struggling for time, what should they stop doing right now so they can spend more time doing what you suggest in 2024?

Jason Barnard [00:15:54]: Well, if you consider that Google and Bing are gonna keep the user on the SERP for longer and bring them down the funnel, site speed and

Jason Barnard [00:16:01]: Page speed become less important from an

Balancing SEO and User Experience: The Role of Site Speed in a Generative AI Era

Jason Barnard [00:16:04]: SEO perspective, page speed is significantly less important in a generative AI world. But site speed remains important for your users. So from an SEO perspective, push site speed back in your priorities. But from a user perspective, please do bear in mind that your users do need a fast site.

David Bain [00:16:28]: Jason Barnard, CEO of Kalicube, and you can find him over at Jason, thanks so much for being part of SEO in 2024.

Jason Barnard [00:16:36]: Thank you very much, David. It was lovely.

David Bain [00:16:38]: I’ve been your host, David Bain. Get your copy of SEO in 2024. The book over at

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