Thumbnail: Ep355: Make Your Voice Sound Natural On Your Podcast - Jason Barnard

Do you want to sound like a natural pro in your podcast? You’re in for a treat because podcaster and voice actor Jason Barnard is with us to share his top tips on sounding good on your recordings while being great at delivering your message. If you want to hear more from our exciting conversation, press the play button!


An advantage of using a lapel mic when podcasting

Main difference between making guest and solo episodes

Creative ways to sound natural and engaging during recordings

The impact of making mistakes and accepting them

Major red flags when finding podcast guests


Zoom H5 4-Track Portable Recorder

Boowa & Kwala



Jason Barnard is the CEO of Kalicube. He is also an entrepreneur, author, and digital marketer specializing in Brand SERP optimization and Knowledge Panel management. He uses the pseudonym “The Brand SERP Guy” for his professional work. Jason’s first book, The Fundamentals of Brand SERPs for Business, was published in January 2022. He regularly contributes articles to leading digital marketing publications. Spanning five seasons, his podcast, “Branded Search (and Beyond) with Jason Barnard,” has become a weekly staple in the digital marketing community. The conversations are always intelligent, always interesting, and always fun! Jason founded multiple companies: Kalicube, but he also founded WTPL Music and UpToTen.


Website: Jason Barnard

Podcast: Branded Search (and Beyond) with Jason Barnard

Mastering Your Podcasting Presence: Tips from The Brand SERP Guy

[00:00:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s really important to remember that you just need to try lots of things out. Figuring out takes time. You need to record yourself. You need to watch yourself back, force yourself to do it. Figure out what works for you in terms of body posture, waving your arms around being excessively cheerful. Once you’ve nailed it, it becomes so natural.

[00:00:16] Speaker: Most hosts never achieve the results they hoped for. They’re falling short on listenership and monetization. Meaning their message isn’t being heard and their show ends up costing them money. This podcast was created to help you grow your listenership and make money while you’re at it. Get ready to take notes.

Exploring Podcasting Success: Insights from a Five-Year Podcaster and Software Entrepreneur

[00:00:34] Speaker: Here’s your host, Adam Adams. 

[00:00:36] Adam Adams: What’s up, podcaster? It’s your host Adam Adams and I am joined today with Jason Barnard who you’re going to enjoy his accent, I think. Originally from England I think, and now in France. He is somebody who’s had his podcast for a little bit. I’m looking into the podcast actually right now as we record and I’m seeing he’s holding up a five, I think that means five years.

[00:01:01] Adam Adams: So that’s about a minute and 284 episodes. So if you’re on today’s episode and you’re listening and you’re thinking “What am I goinig to get out of this?” Well, you’re going to get some tips and tricks from somebody who’s been doing this for five years. So if you’re just starting out, if you’ve didn’t been doing it for one or two years, if you’re about to launch your podcast, with Jason Barnard has got some fun stuff that we will be talking about. His company’s called Kalicube. It’s basically a software company and I’m gonna have him talk a little bit about his company and his podcast today. 

Aligning Podcast and Business Success: Strategies from a Seasoned Podcaster and Entrepreneur

[00:01:33] Adam Adams: Why do we care about his company and why do we care about his podcast? Here’s the thing. Most of my listeners, the people that listen to this podcast and the people that listen to this podcast that call “Grow Your Show”, that’s my company, to work together to have serve you.

[00:01:49] Adam Adams: Most of them, most of you are probably having your podcast and your business going hand in hand. Your podcast might be like a part of the funnel where it pulls people in and so we’ll talk a little bit about his business, his podcast. If he’s doing that or not. If he is, and why? If he’s not, then why? And we’ll get a few tips and tricks and strategies from somebody who’s been doing it for like five years plus now, who can support you in what do you got to do first.

Defining the Ideal Audience: Matching Business and Podcast Avatars with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:02:17] Adam Adams: So that’s where we’re really gonna go. But I want to talk about real quick, your perfect avatar, Jason. So what I’d like is I’m going to give you two questions. Question number one is “Who’s your perfect avatar for your business?” Question number two is “Who’s the perfect avatar for a listener of your podcast?”

[00:02:33] Adam Adams: Let’s just define that person or those two people real quick. 

[00:02:36] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That’s a really interesting pair of questions. The perfect avatar for my business, my perfect client is a company who wants to build a solid future-proof digital strategy. What we do at Kalicube is we’ve taken my knowledge of SEO and we’ve applied it to digital marketing in general.

[00:02:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We start with branding, we build on marketing, and then we add SEO as the packaging of the branding and the marketing, which is how we can build that bulletproof long-term future proof strategy. So that’s the perfect client for us. And then the perfect listener for the podcast is somebody who’s interested in digital marketing in general with SEO as part of that package.

Holistic Insights: Merging Branding, SEO, and Marketing Strategies in Business-to-Business Podcasting

[00:03:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So there is a tendency on the show to focus on branding. That’s why it’s called Branded Search and Beyond With Jason Barnard. But we also talk a great deal about SEO and I try to bring on as many marketers as possible to talk about how do we market a business online and bring in those clients through whatever channel we have: LinkedIn, Facebook, SEO, medium publishing, guest posting, writing a book, or podcasting or videos for that matter. 

[00:03:46] Adam Adams: Love it. So is it more business to business? First of all, is this like your business serving other businesses? 

[00:03:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yes, we’re completely B to B. Our aim is to get clients who want to build their business online. Individuals who don’t have any kind of business around them are not gonna want to work with Kalicube that isn’t as we say in French [inaudible].

Language Mastery: A Multilingual Journey and Bicultural Insights with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:04:08] Adam Adams: Love it. So, hey, speaking of French, let’s take a quick pause. So I know you’ve been there for a long, long time. When did you move there? 

[00:04:15] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): 1988, so 35 years. 

[00:04:17] Adam Adams: Wow. So you are completely fluent.

[00:04:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah, I’m completely bilingual. We used to play a game with my daughter who’s bilingual. She speaks English and French, basically the same level. And she used to put a film on the TV and then at the end of the film, after the credits, she would say “Was that in English or in French, Daddy? “And more often than not, I couldn’t tell her.

[00:04:35] Adam Adams: Wow. Very cool. I love that. I want to be that way with Spanish. I’m like a hundred and something days into an online app for Spanish. 

[00:04:45] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. 

Cultural Crossroads: Navigating Language Accents and Identifying Origins with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:04:45] Adam Adams: And I hired a coach for a few months as well, like a one-on-one tutor twice a week, and I’m nowhere near. I’m curious though. Like in English, I can tell that you are probably British in some way, like somewhere. And I’m wondering does that happen when you speak French? Do they ask you where you’re from or can they tell that you’re from England or something? 

[00:05:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s an interesting question because we lived in Mauritius for 13 years and Mauritius is French and English speaking. So it’s a very strange country where all the administration, the paperwork is in English, all the schoolwork is in English but everybody speaks French. 

[00:05:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So you will go to the administration office and say to them “I need a driver’s license” and they hand you the paper and you have to fill it in in English, but they explain to you what you need to do in French. That’s delightful. It’s so much fun. And what happened in Mauritius is in Mauritius, they couldn’t tell that I wasn’t French. And I thought, well, I’m getting really good at this. I’ve got the accent right off. And then when I came back to France and of course immediately French people say that’s not a French accent, but a lot of people think I’m Dutch or German.

Savoring Southern France: Exploring Lesser-Known Vineyards and Culinary Delights with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:05:50] Adam Adams: Okay. Got it. Very interesting. And then around where do you live? I’m a wine collector. 

[00:05:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, right.

[00:05:55] Adam Adams: Before we started recording, I asked you if you liked wine and you said, I think you almost diverted the question. You’re like, I like cheese, but, so I clicked wine and French wine is some of my absolute favorites. So I had planned to go in 2020. And the borders got shut down and I just haven’t gotten back to that plan yet, even though it’s been years.

[00:06:17] Adam Adams: But every time I think about France, I don’t think of Paris or anything. I think of like different wine regions and Cognac region and stuff like that and sometimes some of the cheese as well, but really it’s really focused on Bordeaux, Loire, Cotes du Rhone, Burgundy or [Bourguenolles]. 

[00:06:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): A hundred percent. 

[00:06:35] Adam Adams: And there’s probably a couple that I had missed, Champagne, for example. But where are you in relation to one of these wine regions? Like are you close to any of those? Loire in the south of France, right? 

[00:06:46] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Ooh, I’m not sure. Now you’ve caught me out there. I think it’s on the left hand side. We’re right in the middle, completely in the south near Montpellier and Nimes. So there are vineyards around here, but they’re not the famous ones. But I think in France there is a whole culture of smaller vineyards that are super good, but less well known.

[00:07:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But I’m not the expert and that’s the point is I’ve been living in France for 35 years. I know so many people who know so much about wine, and I eat cheese and I eat food, and I love the food and the cheese. That’s my thing, not the wine. I’m sorry. 

Cultivating Cultural Integration: Embracing France’s Essence and Linguistic Insights with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:07:20] Adam Adams: I wish the wine wasn’t my thing. There’s so many times that literally and honestly, I’m like I don’t think alcohol serves me. I don’t think alcohol’s something that’s good for you. But I think I identify as somebody who collects wine and so I have to have a shit ton of this wine. Like in the house, I’ve got a couple racks that are completely full and organized by price and I’ve got three cases right here. Right next to me in this office and it’s like it would be a shame not to drink this. And sometimes you find out from the place that you buy it from, because I’m like part of these like wine club, and they will send me literature every now and again that says “If you’ve got the 2019, it needs to be drank this year.” And I’m like, are you serious? Let me go and find that. I really wanted that to be around for a long, long time. But it will go bad if you wait another year or something. So anyway, interesting stuff. So you have a really good accent, but they can tell where you live now?

[00:08:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. They spot that I’m not French. They don’t necessarily spot that I’m English. I think so few English people speak good French that there’s a tendency to not imagine that. So they tend to go for Dutch or German which is quite similar sounding version of the French accent. 

[00:08:33] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And living here for 35 years, you end up getting the culture, you end up getting the films, the way people live, lots and lots of very, very close friends. And what now has happened is that I have no wish to go back to England at all. I think I’ll spend the rest of my days in France. I’ve become very much a part of France, and France has become a part of me. 

Audio Elegance: Crafting Sound Excellence and Microphone Evolution with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:08:54] Adam Adams: That’s awesome. So I wanna take a second to talk a little bit about microphones and equipment. Here’s the reason why I wanna talk about mic and equipment because I’ve got a mic stand with a mic right in front of my mouth and some of the people that I work with, I have a company that serves podcasters, some of the people that I work with, they really try to not have this mic in front of their mouth because they want to record like the video, the visual part and so they come to me and they’re like “I need to get this off of my camera so nobody can see it” and then it doesn’t sound as good. Usually when you get a mic that’s far away from your mouth, you can usually hear like more of the room.. 

[00:09:32] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Echo 

[00:09:32] Adam Adams: ..Than you can just the person’s voice.

[00:09:35] Adam Adams: And so I feel like. I’m constantly “Nope, it has to be right there” but you are somebody who’s been doing acting and music and video for a while and you’re not using a mic that’s blocking right in front of your face and it sounds really, really good. So somebody who’s got the experience with music and microphones and podcasting for five years, I see you’re wearing, I think it’s called a lapel mic. It hooks onto your shirt. 

[00:10:02] Adam Adams: Could you share a little bit about like your microphone journey through the last five years, what you started with and how you got to the lapel mic? 

[00:10:10] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah, that’s a really interesting question. I’m absolutely sure my voice and my sound is less good than yours but it’s not a competition in that sense.

Seamless Speaking: Embracing Lapel Microphones for Effortless Podcasting and Interviewing with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:10:18] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): For me, the lapel mic means that I don’t think about the microphone. I think about what I’m saying. So I accept the slightly less good sound quality in order to have the ability to speak more clearly and not think about the microphone. So if you are a beginner podcaster and having a microphone right in front of you makes you nervous, try lapel mic because you forget about it within about 10 seconds.

[00:10:41] Adam Adams: Yeah. 

[00:10:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But in fact, the lapel mic came from the fact that my initial podcast was that I would go to conferences around the world and if I heard somebody talk about something that I was interested in to do with marketing, I would grab them and say “Can you do an interview on this? “And then I would just hook a lapel mic on them, hook a lapel mic on myself, hit record and record a conversation in the middle of a crowded room.

Effortless Interviewing: Capturing Conversations with Zoom Recorder and Lapel Microphones

[00:11:02] Adam Adams: So how [inaudible] did you use back then?

[00:11:04] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I can show you. 

[00:11:05] Adam Adams: Was it like a Zoom? 

[00:11:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s zoom. 

[00:11:08] Adam Adams: Zoom not being the same that you can record on the cloud.

[00:11:12] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Video. 

[00:11:12] Adam Adams: So this is for the listener who’s like “Oh, he uses Zoom.” Now I use to record my meetings. Not everybody does that because it like compresses the sound, but there’s a different company that’s named Zoom and they make microphones and recording equipment and headphones and things like that. And they’ve got these handheld traveling sets and they have microphones on them but when I’m talking to Jason right now, and I know that he’s saying that he hooked up lapel mics, does that mean you weren’t holding it and putting it in front of you and then holding it in front of them? 

[00:11:45] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): No.

[00:11:46] Adam Adams: You just went through the XLR. There’s two little XLRs at the bottom of that and you’ll just hook a lapel mic like that or are they wireless or how did you do it? And have you ever tried anything else? 

Unburdened Conversations: Finding Microphone Freedom for Engaging Podcasting with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:11:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right, several questions. That number one is wireless. I did try it but the problem is the batteries and when the batteries run out, you don’t necessarily know it in the middle of the interview and then you lose half the interview. That happened to me twice so I decided to use the wires and it’s more annoying but at least you know it’s gonna work and then the second question is have I tried anything else? Yes. I have a Rhodes microphone like yours that a partner gave us. I’ve used that for music recording, but I don’t use it for podcasting because I really like the freedom of not having the microphone in front of me so I don’t need to think about it.

[00:12:31] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): For me, having the clear mind is the most important thing and I think also because I’ve got quite a deep voice, the lapel mic works really well and it wouldn’t necessarily work for somebody who has a higher voice. I can always try and see if it works for somebody with a higher voice and you can tell me if that worked or not. I’ve got no idea. 

[00:12:49] Adam Adams: Okay. Thank you for doing that while we’re on the recording. I was recording this solo episode. I do every other episode that I put out as a solo episode. I was recording this solo episode and it was talking about how to keep listeners engaged and one of the things was just to be yourself. Another one was to keep it funny, like to keep it humorous and to be real and raw and entertaining and I think you hit it perfectly by talking high for us today. And so thank you. You’ve crushed it on those three things. Keeping it humorous, being yourself and whatever the third one was, I can’t even remember now.

Microphone Psychology: Overcoming Performance Anxiety and Maintaining Mental Clarity with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:13:25] Adam Adams: So I think you finished answering the questions because I gave you a ton of them. Basically you have tried other things, you have other equipment and you’re going to continue to use the lapel regardless if you think that the sound could be a little bit better with a mic that you put right in front of you, it’s good enough and it gets your head clear. That’s the big thing for you. 

[00:13:44] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I was in a music group and I had made four music albums, played double bass and sang and we had a guitar player who played fine and then you put a microphone in front of him, he couldn’t function. He literally couldn’t play if he saw the microphone, so we had to hide the microphone so he didn’t see it, and then just get him to play. We say “We’re just practicing now” and then he would play and it’ll be fine. So we had to play tricks on him because the microphone was so scary for him. 

[00:14:06] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Then when I did the voice acting for the TV series cartoon, I found myself faced with a microphone because in the cartoon world, they’ll put a microphone further away than yours is to get more space for the voice of the room. But it’s right in front of you and they won’t put it anywhere else. So you have no choice but to look straight at the microphone all the time. 

Diverse Vocal Dimensions: Overcoming Microphone Distractions and Embracing Character Voices with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:14:25] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And if you’ve seen music videos of people recording music albums, especially in the ’60s and ’70s, you’ve got this huge microphone. You’ve got to deal with it. And it’s actually quite difficult to deal with. 

[00:14:35] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so the different voices, I mean if we’re going to keep that different voices real, is I did five voices for the cartoon. And so one of them was “Hello! I’m a really funny grandpa from the middle of the town and it’s lovely to have you here in our house.” And it was slightly better than that because it was years ago. But I did these different voices and the nice thing about that was the microphone was a distraction. So I closed my eyes. Simple and it will work to treat. 

[00:15:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But in the middle of a podcast, especially when it’s videoed, I can’t close my eyes. That’s cheating and people would just go “but he’s stalking with his eyes closed, that’s very strange.”

Balancing Content Styles: The Power of Interviews vs. Solo Episodes in Podcasting with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:15:11] Adam Adams: So I’m curious about your podcast. 280 plus episodes, basically 290. Looking at this like last week you had one with Joyan and I think a few days before that you had one with another person and another person. What I’m not really seeing is solo episodes, so I’d like you to just speak to, should we do interviews? Should we do solos? What should the listener think and take from this? And then maybe just why are you doing it that way? 

[00:15:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That’s an interesting question. I started doing conversations and interviews because I was at conferences and I wanted to talk to a people and very quickly I realized that when I talked to somebody about their specialist topic that they knew a lot about that I knew less about. I could ask them questions, they would explain it. So I was learning and I’ve done so much learning in the 284 episodes. I wouldn’t be half the marketer I am today if I hadn’t interviewed these people and been able to ask the questions. So my own personal thoughts on an individual topic are interesting but they don’t teach me anything or they don’t teach me anything new that I didn’t know before I actually did the episode.

Interactive Self-Expression: Fostering Confidence and Learning through Conversational Podcasting with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:16:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And the other problem is when you are just talking to yourself as it were mentally speaking, you need to get your mind in the right place. And I find myself, I tend to be much more self-critical if I’ve got a big chunk of me talking on my own. I’ll hear all the mistakes and when there’s a back and forth. I don’t worry about that so much. So I prefer the conversational aspect because I’m less self-critical and I learn so much. 

Personalized Connection: Transforming Podcasting Anxiety into Authentic Conversations with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:16:42] Adam Adams: Yeah very interesting. So you need to get your mind in the right place and you said that for the mic as well as the solo episodes. And I’m thinking through like a little bit of my journey when I feel like my mind wasn’t in the right place and honestly I think a mistake that I had made. I’m just curious, Jason, if you’ve made it. Be honest. 

[00:17:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I will. 

[00:17:03] Adam Adams: Because I know that the listener probably is making it or has made it. I would think that I had to speak to an audience and so what I would imagine myself in front of a microphone or like when I was recording a podcast, whether it was solo or interview, I imagined a thousand people in a room in front of me and the truth is that it gave me anxiety. It made me feel like I had to be perfect. It made me feel like I had to present well. It made me feel like I couldn’t make any mistakes or rerecord something and my mind not being in the right place was absolutely real. It was their thinking that I’m going to mess up. Thousands of people are gonna laugh at you. And then later on I switched it to where I was talking to a perfect avatar. So I basically labeled a person who I really want to work with and I want to serve and it became a real person that I had worked with. 

[00:17:59] Adam Adams: And then if I ever made content, I didn’t think that I was in front of a conference anymore. I started to just think that I was speaking to him, that he was in the room with us, he was the only one going to listen. And for me, it made me not worry so much about the microphone in front of me or the solo episode. It helped me to think of just that one person and maybe talking with him with my heart rather than with my brain because I can overthink it, it can harm it. 

Engaging Imagery: Infusing Positivity and Connection through Visual Prompts in Podcasting with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:18:28] Adam Adams: I know a listener is going through that or has gone through that, but I’m just curious with you. Who do you think of on the other side? Is it nobody? Is it a person? Is it a few people or is it a conference of people? How do you think of the person who’s listening to you right now?

[00:18:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Lovely question in fact and I’ll go right back to the beginning. Before I started the podcast, I was doing webinars and I recorded a webinar and my microphone was sitting on the table instead of my lapel. And the person who recorded it said “Actually, this sounds really terrible.” And I said “Well, I’m going to rerecord because I don’t want to release that.” It’s one of my first webinars. So I rerecorded the whole thing without the person that I was talking to originally and just gave the talk and then I listened back and I sounded so miserable. So I stuck a smiley face on the wall behind, and I did it again and I sounded happy. 

[00:19:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So the huge problem speaking on your own is that you end up growing like this and sounding more and more miserable because you’re focusing on what you’re saying rather than being cheerful and you don’t have the back and forth. So if you’ve got the smiley face, which is what I was using, I was going, “Oh, this is fun.” And the smiley face was making me feel more cheerful and it came across in my voice. 

Elevating Energy: The Impact of Cheerful Mindset and Animated Performance on Solo Podcasting with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:19:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So that was my initial trick and you can’t always do it. Sometimes you don’t have the smiley face. And I decided just to put myself in the mindset. So I really focus on what I’m thinking. I don’t have a crowd in front of me. I don’t think about that but I think be cheerful. That Also comes from the cartoons because with Boowa, which is the blue dog, I would say, “Hello everybody. Lovely to see you. It’s delightful to be here.” Or I could say “Hello everybody. It’s delightful to be here, and it’s lovely to see you.” And the second one sounds so much more cheerful. 

[00:20:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so what you learn when you’re doing a cartoon because people can’t see your face, is that you have to be overly cheerful, but that overly cheerful actually helps you perform better and helps you think better.

[00:20:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So a slight exaggeration, don’t overdo it, but a slight exaggeration in over cheerfulness for me was the way that I solved that particular problem. 

Authentic Resonance: Embracing Genuine Personalities in Podcasting for Deeper Connection with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:20:28] Adam Adams: That’s interesting. Relevant to that is I had a call right before this podcast. I had just like a 30-minute window between a one podcast episode ending and then the beginning of today, right with you.

[00:20:40] Adam Adams: And a client called me and I was busy making the food but I like to try to answer the phone to clients when they call. And this client, they had a similar experience. So he just wanted to let me know that like his co-host passed away in a motorcycle accident. So I spoke with him about that and got off the phone pretty quick and we’re gonna try to serve them and what they need right now.

[00:21:05] Adam Adams: The interesting thing about that team is that they had a lot of back and forth and practice time specific to what you just mentioned. They would record an episode and they would sound like they were being really professional or somebody on the team would sound like they were being professional like trying to really impress people and they’re not really being their self.

Fostering Natural and Engaging Conversations in Co-Hosted Podcasts with The Brand SERP Guy

[00:21:31] Adam Adams: I can tell on this podcast today, right now with us, you’re being yourself. You’re natural. It feels comfortable. It invites me in, it invites I think the listener in as well. And so sometimes they would, because there was three, there’s gonna be two now, obviously. And inevitably somebody was wanting to sound more eloquent and well-spoken than their natural and one of them always had this hard time.

[00:21:59] Adam Adams: The one that called me always had a challenging time to liven up his personality, if you will. So I called it “Eeyore personality”. Eeyore like the cartoon. 

Striking the Balance Between Authenticity and Engagement in Podcasting Co-Hosts

[00:22:10] Adam Adams: So as I’m navigating with these three clients that are co-hosts, it went to something that you mentioned, and so let’s make it a learning point for the listener.

[00:22:19] Adam Adams: Right now, I would say I need you to be at a level six or level seven. Level five is the normal range that most people in this world are at. Level two is Eeyore. Level two is like “Blah blah blah, blah blah blah”. And level five if you just do level five is going to probably come across closer to Eeyore is going to come down a level or two, so it’ll sound like a three.

[00:22:46] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah

[00:22:46] Adam Adams: I always mentioned like one of them went overboard, Ben. He went overboard and he had a couple of episodes where I listened to and he was an 11 or a 10 probably. And I’m like, you don’t have to sound like this completely fake person. It’s got to be you, but it’s gotta be above your average. It has to be slightly above.

Body Language and Voice Modulation: How Altering Posture Can Enhance Voice Performance

[00:23:06] Adam Adams: So they did pretty well after a while. Tell me like, have you ever heard it like that? Because I’m hearing you say you’ve got to come with the energy, you got to come with the voice inflections. Have you ever heard of like bring this certain level so that it sounds like this level? 

[00:23:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I’ve never used numbers but with the Boowa voice, I would always think I have to be more cheerful in my voice than I would usually be. And it’s in the voice that matters for the podcast in terms of the sound. So you don’t have to look cheerful but your voice has to sound more cheerful than you would otherwise be with the smile in the voice which I’m sure you can now hear because I’m putting little tiny chuckles in there which is one trick but don’t overdo it because it gets really annoying. But once you start smiling, you can hear the smile in the voice. And the other trick that I learned for doing different voices was that I couldn’t do one of the voices if I didn’t change my body shape. 

[00:23:54] Adam Adams: Ah, tell me about that. 

Embodying Character Voices: How Body Language Transforms Voice Performance

[00:23:56] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Well, if I’m speaking Boowa, Boowa the Blue Dog is a blue cartoon dog and it’s my voice and it’s me.

[00:24:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So I just talk like this and I feel reasonably cheerful and it sounds fine. “Hello children, lovely to be here.” But then if I do Daddy Kwala who was this small yellow koala who did the gardening and he was terribly cheerful and he spoke like this, and you could see that I’ve just changed my body form with a little rounded arm so that I sound more like the daddy koala that I want to be in.

[00:24:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): If I do the grab park koala, I scrunch myself up in a little wall and I wave my arms around a little bit like this and I sound like an old man, and it’s a body shake that changes the voice.

Power of Posture: How Standing and Body Language Impact Vocal Energy


[00:24:33] Adam Adams: Hey, that brings us to something interesting for me. For the longest time, I always would sit when I was podcasting, especially because my podcast days were several hours. That’s part of the reason. The second part of the reason I didn’t freaking have a standing desk. I just didn’t have one. And then I listened to another podcast influencer talking about how you come out with better energy when you stand up, and that became something that I wanted to do. Now he’s standing.

[00:25:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Now have I got more energy? Is this more energy, more fun? 

[00:25:04] Adam Adams: Probably. I think it’s something that the listener can adopt is that if our shoulders are like rolled forward or if we are closing up our diaphragm by like leaning forward, we are going to sound a certain way. And you mentioned that because you purposely lift up your shoulders, you hunch, you get bigger, you make your arms look round, depending on one of those three voices that you mentioned right now.

Harnessing Vocal Energy Through Posture and Body Language

[00:25:28] Adam Adams: So I think it’s like a takeaway for the listener to say, what is my posture like? What’s in front of me, my microphone? Who am I thinking about? Am I having this? Do I need a smiley face on in front of me? Do I need a picture of my perfect avatar in front of me? Do I need to think about my avatar? Do I need to think about like a group of people?

[00:25:46] Adam Adams: And then what’s my posture? Do I use my hands when I’m explaining things, even though a lot of people can’t hear me? Do I use the hands to explain things? Am I feeling comfortable in my own space? I think that’s really beautiful and you are able to use it as a voice actor in order to get a different sound.

[00:26:04] Adam Adams: And I think that the listener who’s a podcaster can utilize their body language and their body positioning, their posture, to get a different sound. If they want to sound happier and more boisterous, maybe they will open up their chest or lift up their diaphragm or whatever it is. I think that this is a cool, interesting thing to consider and think about.

But it’s really important to remember that you just need to try lots of things out, figure out what works for you and then it becomes really simple.

Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)

[00:26:25] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You’ve made a huge point and you’ve brought it all together incredibly well and I would just say that sounded really complicated. But it’s really important to remember that you just need to try lots of things out, figure out what works for you and then it becomes really simple.

[00:26:39] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Figuring out takes time. You need to record yourself. You need to watch yourself back. That can be painful. Force yourself to do it. Figure out what works for you in terms of body posture, waving your arms around being excessively cheerful. Once you’ve nailed it, it becomes so natural. It will be completely natural. And all of a sudden you’ll be in a position I hope, where, as you said, it sounds very natural, welcomes people in.

When you do something less than perfect, don’t think that was a mistake, it was terrible. Think I could have done it slightly better. Next time I’ll do it a little bit better. So it’s not bad.

Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy)

[00:27:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But I actually had to work on that and I had to listen to myself over and over and over again. And one more point on that is when you do something less than perfect, don’t think that was a mistake,it was terrible. Think I could have done it slightly better. Next time I’ll do it a little bit better. So it’s not bad.

[00:27:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s not a mistake. It’s something you can improve on and if you look at it that way, you don’t hate yourself at all, don’t you? 

Redefining Mistakes: Embracing Failure as a Path to Entrepreneurial Success

[00:27:22] Adam Adams: I like that. I think a lot of people that, especially in the US we grow up, we become five years old. We go to school, we get good grades and bad grades. Our parents normally reward us for good grades and punish us for bad grades so if we make a mistake or we ask our neighbor something and we’re called cheaters or we’re called failures. And I think as we grow up as five years old to maybe through college for a lot of us, we’re not supposed to work together and we’re not supposed to make mistakes. Mistakes mean bad grades. Bad grades mean we’re grounded or whatever.

[00:28:00] Adam Adams: And I think that some of the people listening are more entrepreneurial, meaning they were shitty in school and that’s okay because they’re successful now because they’re working with people that have learned it. And one thing that I’m hearing is honestly, I think most of us are culturally taught that a mistake is a bad thing and it means we’re bad at something, it means we’ve got a F and we can never make up that failing grade and it means we’re bad and we’re grounded.

Embracing Failure: Shifting Mindset from Setbacks to Learning Opportunities

[00:28:30] Adam Adams: But really, ultimately, one thing that I’m hearing you say is that like it’s okay to make that mistake. Don’t let it bother you. Like listen to it and think, how can I do it better next time? Not think, yeah, oh, I’m bad at this. I should quit this. I have a failing grade. No, you can go and cheat off your neighbor.

[00:28:48] Adam Adams: You can go and call somebody and ask them. You can get a coaching, a mentorship. You can watch YouTube channels, you can listen to podcasts like this. You can read a book, you can do it again. You can start all over and like it’s not the end anymore. But the failure is the learning experience. 

[00:29:05] Adam Adams: And I think it was Edison with a bulb. Before he had the bulb I think he said like, I haven’t failed at doing this. I haven’t failed. I’ve only found 10,000 ways that don’t yet work. Like it’s a totally different mindset. When you’re an artist, you’re an inventor, you’re a podcaster, or you’re even an entrepreneur and you have a failure, you have a light bulb idea that didn’t work. He didn’t quit after two a hundred or even 500, or even 999. He did 10,000 ways that didn’t work. And I think that’s just an interesting thing to think through. 

Embracing Imperfection: Letting Go of Mistakes and Focusing on Progress

[00:29:40] Adam Adams: Well, we’re taught one thing but really ultimately the failure and I’m air quoting, is positive. It brings us closer to our goal. 

[00:29:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. But another really interesting point is when I was learning to play the double bass, which is the bull fiddle, the standup base, I got one lesson from a German double bass player and I was just learning, and I was supposed to be playing a concert 30 days later, and I had 30 days to learn a double bass. And he said to me when you make a mistake, the first thing you need to do is forget about it. And the best way to do that is to remember that most people who are listening to you haven’t heard it. It’s probably only you who knows you made a mistake or even thinks you made a mistake. And in the audience, 99% of people have no idea, so you have to forget about it. As soon as it’s out of your mouth or your double base, forget about it because it’s gone, it’s finished. You can’t change it, so forget about it and get on with the rest of it because nobody else has noticed. 

The Power of Mistakes: A Catalyst for Learning and Growth in Language and Business

[00:30:34] Adam Adams: You have been in France for 35 years and you speak it fluently. I mentioned earlier today, and it might’ve been before we started recording, so the listener might not have heard this at all, but I’m learning Spanish.

[00:30:46] Adam Adams: So I’ve been doing like a hundred plus days of Spanish practice and when I have a perfect lesson, like it’s called a perfect lesson because they ask you like 10 or 15 questions and if you get them all right, it’s like, congratulations, you got a perfect lesson. 

[00:30:59] Adam Adams: Whenever I get a perfect lesson, I never feel like I learned anything. To be honest. I don’t feel like I’ve learned something. I can feel a little bit accomplished. I’m like, okay, that’s good. I don’t have to spend time redoing anything. 

Embracing Failure: A Gateway to Deeper Learning and Resilience in Language and Business

[00:31:10] Adam Adams: But if on those times that I make a mistake or two or three or maybe more in those 10 or 15 questions on the times that I make a mistake, or two or three, those are the times that I learn the most and it’s like, well, why is this, oh, I didn’t conjugate it right? Or why is this right? Oh, it’s because I forgot that little mark above the E or like the difference between this word and this word is just a little mark over one of the letters. And what I’ve noticed is whenever those failures come, although immediately I’m like, what? Immediately I don’t want to admit that I made a mistake or whatever. I want to be like, this game is dumb, the software is rigged. But when I look at it and spend the time, I’m like, oh, and I learn so much more when I fail I get better when I fail and I think that is another beautiful point, is like we should on our podcast and in our business be willing to fail and in our lives, be willing to make mistakes because it means that we’re learning and growing. When we are lifting weights, when we lift the weight, that’s like a mistake. It tears the muscles down. And then when we sleep, then it rebuilds that muscle and it gets stronger or bigger, it looking better. And that’s kind of like what I think of making these mistakes in business.

[00:32:26] Adam Adams: We learn more when we’re going out of our comfort zone and pushing past a boundary. 

Navigating Guest Selection: The Art of Curating Engaging Conversations for Your Podcast

[00:32:31] Adam Adams: I’m curious, Jason, like for you and your podcast journey really got two questions. What mistakes have you made in the last five years with your show, with how you’ve done your show, how you started your show? Basically, what if you’d made a mistake? And the second part of the question is, how would you fix it if you started today? If you restarted your whole journey right now, what would you do differently? 

[00:32:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I think the biggest mistake I’ve made is to have guests who I didn’t actually really want and not have the courage to say to them, actually, I don’t think this is going to be an interesting conversation for me or for my audience.

[00:33:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And having that courage is something I’ve had a problem with my whole life as a human being is saying that to people and saying, well, actually, it’s not you. It’s not that you are an uninteresting person. It’s just not a good fit for this. And so I’ve had a few podcast episodes up the 284, probably 10 where I think I should have said no. 

Strategic Guest Selection and Engaging Content: Navigating Chemistry, Practical Insights, and Authenticity

[00:33:24] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so the way to fix it for me is to be more confident in my gut feeling about the person and what they want to talk about because there are two aspects here. Number one is the person and their personality. Some people are simply not inspiring for me, and once again, nothing to do with them. It’s just there isn’t the chemistry and the other is talking about something where they’re not bringing something new to the table where they’re talking, I use the word guff. And for me, guff means talking about something without giving any practical insights. Whereas you’ve been talking about lots of practical insights. I love what you are talking about. It’s absolutely not guff. 

[00:33:56] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So my solution to that would be to understand what it is they’re gonna talk about and do pre-interviews. To check that there is some chemistry. Doesn’t have to be huge chemistry, but it needs to be something that sparks the happy voice, let’s say we were talking about earlier on. And there’s an additional thing which goes along with the guff is people who try to sell too much, who come on the podcast and desperately try and sell their services. Hugely annoying. 

Effective Guest Dynamics and Meaningful Conversations: Navigating Agendas, Self-Promotion, and Authenticity

[00:34:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And I’ve got another one is people who come on and they have an agenda and whatever questions you ask, they just say what they were going to say to start with. 

[00:34:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And avoiding that kind of guest is the one thing that I think I could have done much better in the last 284 episodes. 

[00:34:34] Adam Adams: I love that. I really, really, really like where you’ve gone. Now, I don’t know how to spell “Guff” yet. Is it one F or two? 

[00:34:40] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s G U F F, but I don’t think it’s a real word. I think I just made it up. 

[00:34:44] Adam Adams: So I’ve written down guff, agenda and self-promotion. 

[00:34:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. 

Partial Insights and Directionless Information: The Challenge of Incomplete Contributions

[00:34:49] Adam Adams: And these are the three that I hate as well. That I like a little bit less than the other ones that I like.

[00:34:56] Adam Adams: It’s information without direction. It’s just part of it. They give a part.

[00:35:02] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yes. 

[00:35:02] Adam Adams: Maybe what they’re wanting to give you is a pie, but they only give you like a small slice of that pie. 

[00:35:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yes. 

Navigating Guest Challenges: Addressing Agendas, Self-Promotion, and Misaligned Personalities

[00:35:07] Adam Adams: So you don’t know where it’s going. You don’t know why they brought it up. That might be guff. Agenda is when they’re on, and like you said, they don’t care what you are asking necessarily. They had the 10 points or the five points that they needed to make on every episode. because that’s the only way that they feel comfortable. In some of them. That’s the only way they feel comfortable. They can’t have that like flexibility, like open-minded, like what’s going to happen. They have to have the rigid structure, they have got to have that structure.

[00:35:38] Adam Adams: So some of them, the agenda is like, all right, I’m gonna be on this. These are the things I’m going to talk about. And they’re having a hard time just answering questions and just going with the flow. And then the last one is self-promotional where they’re trying to sell things. They’re only there because like, all right, how do we get people to buy this?

[00:35:56] Adam Adams: And so you talked about having the wrong guest was like your big mistake. And one of the ways that you’re fixing this is by having pre-interview like a call ahead of the interview. And you also mentioned just like maybe if the personality just isn’t there, like you don’t have the same match maybe being a four thing.

Quality Over Quantity: Overcoming the Fear of Missing Out (FOMO) When Choosing Podcast Guests

[00:36:17] Adam Adams: But thinking about getting the wrong guest, I am thinking about my main listener. They’re usually worried, honestly. If they haven’t had a podcast for a while, they’re usually thinking like, it’s gonna be hard for me to get a guest. That’s actually true. Like most people think that it’s challenging, it’s difficult.

[00:36:38] Adam Adams: There’s kind of like a fear of missing out fomo type thing where they’re like, I’ll take anyone to be on my show because I don’t know if anybody wants to be on my show. It is also kind of like a limiting belief for them. And who they are because in the beginning they’re like, who would want to be on my show? I haven’t even launched. Who would want to be on my show? I don’t even know what I’m doing. Which is all true. These things are probably true, partially at least. 

[00:37:03] Adam Adams: So if I’m listening, Jason and I’m that person who’s thinking to myself, well, Jason’s saying I need to be careful about who comes to my show because what was it, 10 out of 200 and something like 4% go awry, go wrong. 

[00:37:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. 

Balancing Act: Navigating Guest Selection and Overcoming the Fear of Rejecting Potential Guests

[00:37:20] Adam Adams: If I’m the listener and I’m just thinking like, but I don’t even know if somebody’s going to want to come on my show. How could I tell somebody no? Not just because it’s hard and it hurts our feelings to tell somebody no. But also because it’s like, if I don’t get that person, who else am I going to get? Who will want to come on? So we feel like we’ve gotta take on the wrong people on purpose. Can you speak to that person who’s listening and just thinking like, how do I balance this? 

[00:37:43] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah, no, it’s a great question. There are several things a lot of people who want to be on podcasts and don’t even ask, is it a famous podcast? Do you get a lot of listeners? Do you have lots of reviews because they want to share what they know or they want to do some kind of promotion. So there you just need to worry about the people who overdo the self-promotion. There are platforms like PodMatch, do a really good job of bringing together guests so you can actually reach out to people and find the guests who actually make sense for your show.

Building Credibility: Leveraging Guest Selection and Episode Count to Attract Quality Guests

[00:38:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And there are a couple of things is if you’ve had one guest who’s reasonably famous or not even famous, famous the level celebrity, somebody who has been on a few shows, that will immediately mean that people who come to see if they wanna be on your show will think, well, he or she was on the show. Makes sense. Must be good. 

[00:38:25] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So you get that one first guest who has some kind of name and then you psych them having been as guests. And that’s hugely powerful.

[00:38:33] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And the other is, if you can say, I’ve got 50 episodes. Even if none of the guests are famous, even if you don’t have many lessons, I’ve got 50 episodes means you’re in there for the long haul.

Establishing Your Podcast Presence: Key Strategies from Jason Barnard

[00:38:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): People will join you because they know that you’re going to bring value over time and it doesn’t have to have a huge number of lessons today because over time there is going to be value for them. So I think it’s sticking at it. Inviting people get that first guest who has some kind of name. Doesn’t matter how big a name it is, as long as they have some kind of recognition within whatever industry you’re working in and consistency and having a certain number of episodes, then it flies and you’ll be inundated with people who want to be on your show.

[00:39:11] Adam Adams: Awesome. Well, it’s about the time that we’ll go ahead and wrap it up. So I’ll just let the listener know. A couple of quick things. Branded Search and Beyond is the podcast. The link to the podcast is just at the bottom of the show notes and it’s with Jason Barnard that’s who’s been our guest today shared lots of cool insights and tips and tricks and strategies for your podcast.

Maximizing Podcast Impact: Takeaways for Improved Recording and Guest Selection

[00:39:31] Adam Adams: We’ve learned about lapel mics, we’ve learned about voice. We’ve learned about our body posture. We’ve learned about guff and agenda and self-promotion and how to not get the wrong guests and lots of other value has come out today. 

[00:39:44] Adam Adams: So if you want to follow him you can go to his podcast. You can go to his website by following the links that are in the show notes right now.

Engaging Solo Episodes and Podcasting Community: Take Action for Growth

[00:39:52] Adam Adams: And as a reminder every other episode of the podcast on podcasting is a solo episode, and I’m excited because I got something curated for you that I know that you’re going to need, and that’s gonna be on the solo episode right after this. So don’t go anywhere, you don’t even have to jump off. Just listen to that episode and it will give you some value. I will see you there.

[00:40:11] Adam Adams: If you’re glad that you checked out the podcast today. If you got some value out of this episode, some actionable takeaways, I invite you to do one of three things. A. You could do a written review on Apple. Let us know what you think. Just an honest written review. B.You could share the podcast with a friend of yours who needs it, or C. At the very least, implement what you’ve learned to take your business and your podcast to the next level, and I’ll see you on the next episode.

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