Generative AI has revolutionized search in 2023, starting with Bing Chat and ChatGPT and followed by Google’s Search Generative Experience Beta. SEOs who want to thrive in this new era need to adapt their strategies away from the old blue link paradigm and towards the new conversational and creative possibilities. Join Fabrice Canel, Principal Product Manager at Bing, as he reveals how Bing creates Chat results, how they use AI in their ranking algorithms and what SEOs should focus on for 2024. Learn from his insights into both Bing and Google, since they share many similarities, and ask him your burning questions live with Jason Barnard, who knows how to get the best answers out of Mr BingBot.
Don’t miss this unique chance to learn what is coming in AI, what you need to do to thrive & survive, and (of course) ask your burning questions directly to ‘Mr BingBot’. Register now and take a giant leap forward in your SEO journey!
Join Fabrice Canel and Jason Barnard for this week’s episode of Kalicube Friday the 13th!
Kalicube Friday the 13th Special with Jason Barnard and Fabrice Canel
[00:00:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Hi everybody and welcome to Kalicube Tuesdays on a Friday with Fabrice Canel. Welcome Fabrice.
[00:00:09] Fabrice Canel: Welcome. Hello everybody.
[00:00:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): A quick hello and we’re good to go. Welcome to the show, Fabrice Canel.
[00:00:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We thought we’d do this on Friday the 13th because Friday the 13th there’s a special day. I like Friday the 13th because I think there’s a character called Jason on Friday the 13th the film, so it speaks to me, and I don’t believe in bad luck on the 13th, so we’re fine here today. Welcome everybody in the audience. I’m afraid that LinkedIn hasn’t worked, we made a mistake with the scheduling, so anybody who’s on LinkedIn, come over, oh no, you can’t.
[00:00:50] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, we have to hope the people on LinkedIn think I’ll go to YouTube, or Facebook, or Twitter to watch this. Now, Fabrice, we’re going to be talking about all of this stuff. These are the questions that I’m going to be asking you. We’ll be talking about all of this stuff and I’ll let people read it.
Analyzing Bing’s Balanced and Informative Results on Friday the 13th
[00:01:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Everybody can read, so there’s no need for me to read it. What I just need to do is fill in the time whilst people are reading the bullet list. Before we start the show, and we’re going to start the show with Friday the 13th, Bing’s result on Friday the 13th. That’s brilliant. That’s so rich, and it’s so informative, and it’s balanced.
[00:01:31] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That’s what I noticed most of all. It’s a balanced result. Explain what the Friday the 13th is. It includes the film, lots of images, lots of options. Have you got anything to say about that?
[00:01:44] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, it seems good. It’s satisfying the user is our goal and here, apparently, we do pretty good.
[00:01:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You do, rather.
Comparing Bing and Google: Bing’s Advantage and Google’s Duplicate Listings
[00:01:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You do better than Google. They’re completely focused on the date and they’ve got the picture of the film and you can claim the knowledge panel for the date, which seems to me incredibly strange as an idea. Jono Alderson runs a website about the different dates and celebrations in the year of the calendar.
[00:02:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, I’ve suggested to him that he might want to go and claim every single date of the year on Google, which will be a lot of fun. Next up, Google’s duplicated you, in fact, it’s triplicated you. There are three different Fabrice Canels and they’re obviously the same person. So Google, we’re going to talk about the update.
Exploring User Interaction Insights from Bing Chat and More
[00:02:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): There’s the Killer Whale update, which I’ll talk about right at the end, and this is part of the Killer Whale update and I was looking at Bing for myself, in French, because we both speak French. That’s a great result, and apparently, you guys at Bing see me as a voice actor and I’m associated with Ralph Fiennes.
[00:02:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But I am a voice actor, and I like that. That makes me feel happy. So, thank you. Bing. Now on to the questions, the serious stuff, which is what everybody’s here for. We’ve got quite a lot of people watching, we’ve done the three-minute introduction. I’ll tell the people watching, please do post your questions in the comments.
[00:03:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We will try to answer them as we go through. I’ll try to integrate them into the show. As we go through the questions, and we’re going to start with, what insights has user interaction with Bing Chat brought? Before that, briefly explain what Bing Chat is so that we’re all on the same page
The Evolution of Bing Chat: Enabling Complex Queries and Longer Interactions
[00:03:38] Fabrice Canel: So, Bing Chat is this new abilities that we have enabled only six months ago, seven months ago now, to enable an experience that is enabling a customer to do far more complex query.
[00:03:54] Fabrice Canel: You have this very large text box where customer can enter sentences almost paragraphs. You see that here there is up to thousands of characters that we can enter. This is not anymore the small very little things that customer have entering before in typical search. They can really ask a lot of
[00:04:18] Fabrice Canel: long question, and not only question, but also, continue on the question, a short experience where they will continue iterating to dig based on the answer in what we are looking for, and obviously we try to satisfy them by this
[00:04:37] Fabrice Canel: experience.
Expanding Search Beyond Short Queries: Embracing Contextual and Complex Questions
[00:04:39] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. I didn’t realize I could have asked a huge question with context and everything, I’ll try that afterwards. I don’t think people realize that we’re still stuck in the search box idea where we type in six or seven words and we’re feeling pretty ambitious there already. In fact, I could type in a whole context with a question afterwards.
[00:04:58] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, and we see people obviously doing this. This is people that know exactly what they want. This is a typical search, you go to a search engine, you type YouTube, yes, you go to YouTube, you click the first link, this is mostly navigational queries. You may want also an answer, you may want the weather over there, the weather on a specific location, you get your answer, you’re happy,
[00:05:22] Fabrice Canel: that’s it. Then this is things that are more, I know what I want, but you don’t really know and so this is, what is the best coffee machine? Okay, there is not really one answer there, there is a series of answers. Is coffee good for you? Yes, no, it depends on your condition and if you like coffee or yes or no.
Bing’s Ability to Handle Complex Queries and Enhance User Experience
[00:05:43] Fabrice Canel: You can do very, very complex query. Let’s say an example of query, I need to throw up a dinner party for six people who are vegetarian, can you suggest a three course menu with a chocolate dessert? This is things that we are able to answer now, so, Bing it’s all about satisfying the end user.
[00:06:05] Fabrice Canel: Sometime it’s all about exploring the web, but sometime it’s all about understanding the web and providing this experience where at the end, we can learn the clicks to the website, having extremely qualified clicks. This is something we’ve seen where clearly when people are clicking. This is extremely paid clicks and this translate benefit for the end user, for the website, certainly more than search engine.
[00:06:35] Fabrice Canel: Typical search engine.
Google’s FreshPrompt: A Resemblance to Bing Chat’s Capabilities
[00:06:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Absolutely brilliant. One question, moving over to Google very briefly is Marie Haynes shared this and it struck me, this seems to be quite similar to Bing Chat and it’s called FreshPrompt. Obviously, you don’t know what’s happening at Google, it’s not your problem. That looks something in the region of Bing Chat.
[00:06:57] Fabrice Canel: Yeah. So, fundamentally, this is what we have abilities to do in Bing Chat that we don’t really have out-of-the-box of in search. It’s a little bit more time to really go deep in understanding the query, understanding what the query can return at the results.
Enhancing User Experience Through Query Orchestration and User Profiles
[00:07:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): In the meantime, Jeanie Hill says hello from Minnesota and she loves your accent.
[00:07:28] Fabrice Canel: Hello, great. So, this is all about at the end, be able to have an orchestration between the queries itself and the ranking and the profile of a user to really go deeper in understanding what the user is looking for and retrieving from the set of content, doing multiple queries on the system to be able to retrieve the best content on the internet.
[00:08:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. We’re going to talk about the multiple queries in a moment.
Adapting to User Interaction in the Transition from Traditional Search to Conversational Search
[00:08:10] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): My question right now is, obviously you’ve been tracking user interaction. Nathan Chalmers told me that user interaction data, mouse moving and clicking, and so on and so forth, is used in the whole page algorithm at Bing. I would assume you’re using a Bing Chat as well, what have you learned from user interaction with Bing Chat?
[00:08:31] Fabrice Canel: So, this is the interesting part. This is for the last 25 years or 30 years, all customers worldwide have experienced a search engine where they were entering a query box and a set of 10 blue links. This has completely changed with such experience, where it’s a chat.
[00:08:56] Fabrice Canel: We are geeks. I think most people listening to the chat are really technical experts, you use our experience experts and they are comfortable with their experience. When you are sending such experience to a set of new user, the first thing is, what’s happening? Oh my god, what is this all about? Because clearly they never see that before. If you see, also we were not really doing testing externally, this is not something that was disclosed before we shift. When we shift, okay, this was completely new for a large set of users. Little by little, we see that they learn how to experience this new interface and we learn from that.
[00:09:42] Fabrice Canel: So, yes, obviously we are understanding what customers are doing to be able to tweak and satisfy at the end of the user. Something we see also that Google is starting to do this kind of experience, more chatty, more conversational, people have a discussion with the engine. So, as more people are learning how to use that, yes, this is things that will continue to evolve as the 10 blue links has evolved over the years.
Exploring the Evolution of Search Queries and the Introduction of Chat Experience Prompt
[00:10:10] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. Wonderful. Oh, I love the answer. The next question is, oh, I was wondering how many people have figured out you can make these incredibly long queries if you want to?
[00:10:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): How far behind am I in having learned that from you today?
[00:10:25] Fabrice Canel: Again, when you go to a search engine and you query for a navigational query, you don’t really [this] this experience, you may still want to go to this experience if you want to refine your query to learn more about Wikipedia and you can drill into what is Wikipedia and so on.
[00:10:41] Fabrice Canel: Mostly this is about navigational query and go to this experience. This is not only about sometime we are prompting and suggesting this experience in the search results based on the query itself. When we see a very long query where we don’t really know what this is, and we may want to ask the user to refine the queries, to improve the queries, and we can suggest text, then this is something that you will also surface, but we will also surface in the search results, to help the user to understand that, oh, maybe there is this other tools, this chat experience that can help the user to find more on the internet.
Continuous Improvement in Search Technology: Bing Chat’s Impact on Strategy and User Satisfaction
[00:11:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Super, lovely, absolutely. Now, I was really curious. Obviously, you’ve been looking at the data, and you’ve been looking at how people interact with the super duper Bing Chat over the last six months. Has it changed your plans or your strategy at all or did you get it right out-of-the-box?
[00:11:38] Fabrice Canel: We never get things right out-of-the-box. This search engine is all about learning and tuning. This is a massive kind of data mining experimentation, ongoing experimentation, where, engineers, me and others are coming with new ideas and we are
[00:11:55] Fabrice Canel: ideas and flighting and testing. At the end, this is all about satisfying the user search engines have improved a lot. They continue to improve and this new technology help us to improve even faster and certainly better to satisfy even more user. We see that the satisfaction of user at Bing has really improved even more in the last six months than before.
[00:12:22] Fabrice Canel: So this is continuous improvement of the technology.
Measuring Success: Bing Chat’s Impact on Search Quality and User Satisfaction
[00:12:27] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): If I may show the slide, is that what this represents?
[00:12:32] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, this was one of the, what we call, okay, stick. This is one of the big improvement that this technology enabled for at one time in the system meaning that we were seeing some incremental improvement and here this is this big, okay stick, where you see a new plateau, a new story about, hey, clearly the results have improved a lot. Since we continue to see this plateau happening because as the team is mastering even more of the technology, even more of the experience, and more important, we understand even more what customers are doing or customers are using the technology, using the experience, we can refine it and improve it.
Understanding the Cascade of Queries in Bing Chat: Beyond the Initial Four Questions
[00:13:22] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. We’re going to talk about the hockeystick that we just saw there, and potential future hockeysticks, and why there’s a plateau in question six. So, one question that I have been curious about, and I thought we had found the maximum when we saw four questions or four queries behind a Bing Chat answer but you told me the other day that there’s much more going on behind the scenes. There’s a cascade of queries going on.
[00:13:57] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, it may happen, it will happen. It’s really depending on the query itself. It can be in chat really, a navigational query, you want to learn about what is Wikipedia and so on, then clearly the first set of results are highly relevant, and you don’t need to do additional queries too much on the system to see there is additional queries. Sometime there is again, there was sharing this very long query that is a real query from user about, hey, I want to throw a dinner with people to try to find these things that clearly you never see before in search engine and the technology enable this experience where we are able to retrieve dinner options for the customer and linking obviously to the website to refine and to learn more about what these plates are all about.
[00:15:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): This query, and I’ll just put it up really quickly there, it’s obvious there must be multiple queries going on behind because you can’t compile that answer for one set of results. I’d never thought about it because I had never asked anything that complex before.
[00:15:17] Fabrice Canel: As first we, we demo that we, I don’t say market, via Bing Reward, via links in the tool that we explain to customer that, hey, no, you can’t do this queries.
Unlocking the Full Potential: User Delight in Crafting Complex Queries and the Evolution of Search Technology
[00:15:31] Fabrice Canel: As we explain and demo via links and marketing-type of things, then these people start to understand that they can do such complex query. You see people absolutely delighted by this experience, generating more qualified clicks, because they never saw that before. This is clearly be able to really understand deeply the web, to really link to the perfect results on the web.
[00:15:58] Fabrice Canel: Again, this is, we see this as there is a larger text box, as there is people can enter more and people can understand that they can do more, then they do more and then they are, oh, amazing, delighted. Before such query, in search engine, this was zero results, clearly, because there was no content on the internet, but we’re having all these keywords, all these terms.
[00:16:22] Fabrice Canel: Now, the technology has evolved. This is not about really term matching. This is really understanding the context of a query, the context of a user, to really retrieve the best content on the internet. So, the verbs of a user matter even more these days. People want to say, I want to book a ticket to this thing and book maybe not really in the content of a page, but we know that it’s a booking activity,
[00:16:49] Fabrice Canel: so maybe this is all about retrieving the event itself where people then can book the content. So, think technology really improve. Don’t think about keyword and search engine and so on, think about satisfying the user for a set of queries that they think they will do.
User Intent and Satisfying the User: A Clear Focus on Bing Chat’s Functionality
[00:17:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Sorry, this just struck me, a couple of things. Number one, verbs are super important and number two is, everybody’s been saying, focus on user intent, focus on satisfying the user. This is the first time you’ve just pointed it out to me and I feel a bit foolish now, the first time where it’s very clear that that’s what’s happening because you’re answering the question, you’re stopping the hopping backwards and forwards from the SERP.
[00:17:32] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You’re giving us the answer, and our capacity to satisfy the user when they eventually do click on a link onto our site is the single most important thing, and the verbs help you to get them to us with the do-words as we call them at primary school.
[00:17:48] Fabrice Canel: Yeah. This is obviously if a customer specifies a verb, this is important, but if a customer, some of the customers do not specify a verb, then this is all about understanding the context of this query in this specific chat or the ability to understand what the session was all about.
[00:18:08] Fabrice Canel: Because maybe you want to search, give me a restaurant, okay, maybe we will give you a list of restaurants near you and then you can say, hey, I want a vegetarian restaurant, okay and then you have a list of vegetarian restaurants. Give me a vegetarian one and give me one that can accommodate 20 people.
The Shift from Keyword Matching to Understanding User Conversations and Contex
[00:18:29] Fabrice Canel: So, again, you don’t repeat the restaurant story, you just continue the chat experience and we have a full context of the full session and helping to reply your question. For search engine optimization is mean that, what it mean? It means that you may care about keyword and you should care about keyword because we need to know that it’s a restaurant for a vegetarian,
[00:18:53] Fabrice Canel: we need to know that it can accommodate a large group of people, but this is less about really matching this query. This is again, not really matching, this is matching what people are searching, looking for.
[00:19:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah, which is delightful. Also the fact that people are actually now having a conversation to get to the bottom, don’t necessarily need to put that huge query, but the combination of the questions or the subqueries that they’re making end up making that big query.
Bing Chat vs. Search: Shared Technology with Added Features for Chat Interaction
[00:19:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Now, here’s a question. Oh, that wasn’t a question, that’s Zara. Hello Zara, lovely to see you here. Does Bing Chat algorithm and search algorithm are the same? Are Bing Chat algorithm, the search algorithm the same?
[00:19:36] Fabrice Canel: This is excellent question. First of all, in Bing Chat and search, we benefit, obviously, of a big index.
[00:19:43] Fabrice Canel: It’s not, let’s say, a large language model store that you interact. Here, we benefit from not only this new tech that we are having, but also by having a deep interaction with the index itself. So meaning, that we are doing multiple queries and retrieving from this query the best content on the internet.
[00:20:07] Fabrice Canel: It’s not a static set, it’s a dynamic set, you benefit from having the latest content index and have a technology for that to make sure that a content can be indexed, latest content can be indexed in second, but it’s really this kind of interaction. We have the best content on the internet that we can retrieve, and we do multiple queries to retrieve.
[00:20:29] Fabrice Canel: So, overall, I will share that the technology is the same, but in chat, there is even more complex queries that are done to really retrieve the content, analyze the content. Chat gives us access to more time to do a little bit more things, understanding, also, interacting deeper with the user via the chat experience and session where we can also not only suggest text, suggest verbs that the customer can do to continue the discussion with a search engine to retrieve the best content on the internet.
The Role of Large Language Model (LLM) Updates in Bing’s Search Results
[00:21:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Wonderuful answer. I didn’t expect such a clear and full answer. That’s actually incredibly helpful with idea of a little bit more time. Because you’re printing it out little by little, it gives you more time to actually, behind-the- scenes, figure out the answer. Now, my next one was how much difference will future LLM updates make to the results?
[00:21:23] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Because you mentioned LLM, and it’s an LLM, a large language model, using the live search queries or the search queries and the large language model working together to produce this result. So, when the large language model updates, how much difference will that make to the results? Or is it the search results themselves that are the most important?
[00:21:46] Fabrice Canel: So first, LLM is just one of the technologies that we are leveraging, and there is far more. Some that we cannot already disclose, but yeah, we explained this orchestration of all this query results before we are interacting with Yandex. This is something that we went in depth to explain, obviously this is really working.
Prometheus Model: Powering Bing Chat’s Interactive Query and Search Processes
[00:22:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That’s Prometheus.
[00:22:14] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, Prometheus. This is the Prometheus model.
[00:22:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Can I show that?
[00:22:21] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, you can show that. This is really this chat answer, the user query, you answer is on the context, and then you’re really adding this orchestrator, that is really interacting, querying, querying again, based on what we can retrieve from the big index.
Bing Chat’s Dynamic Interaction with Live Search Queries: A Game-Changer in User Experience
[00:22:41] Fabrice Canel: So again, when you interact directly with a model, that is a static, it does not include the last content. Here, not only we are interacting with the language model, but we are really iterating with the search engine to retrieve the best content, so this technology, this is magical. This is you are able, as we demonstrated before, to answer a very complex query on a restaurant, very, very long queries, very long, complex query
[00:23:07] Fabrice Canel: and clearly, this is something that was not there nine months ago. So, as people are experiencing this, they say, wow. People that discover it and use that, then they stick to it. I am stick to it for personal life, where I’ve got to search things. Okay, again, navigational, yes, but then I switch to chat when I want to really experience this experience and I don’t want to do 25 links in the search results to try to find the best content, because this is useless, not good for searching for a website that you visit, but then nothing is happening, so at the end this is really improving the experience of a user and the life of a user.
Bing Chat: A Hybrid of Dynamic Featured Snippets and a Knowledge Pane
[00:23:56] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): From my perspective, I’ve suggested that Bing Chat is multiple mini featured snippets or a dynamic knowledge panel? Which do you feel is closest?
[00:24:07] Fabrice Canel: I think at the end of the day, fundamentally, this is both and this is really something that is new.
[00:24:15] Fabrice Canel: Based on the experience, we may surface an answer. If you are looking for a knowledge panel like thing. If you are searching for, give me some generic information about Wikipedia, maybe we don’t satisfy this query today, but the intent is really to surface some information about Wikipedia and retrieve this information about what is Wikipedia, when it was founded and blah.
[00:24:38] Fabrice Canel: So this is displaying some information like that.
Insights on Dynamic Knowledge Panels and Multi-faceted Featured Snippets
[00:24:43] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So you’ve just made me realize something. I’ve been saying a dynamic knowledge panel because I focus on the navigational queries, which are branded queries, and that’s what Kalicube is all about. What does Bing and what does Google return when you search a brand name or a personal name?
Impact of Content Dynamics on User Satisfaction in Search Results
[00:24:57] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So I would see them, Bing Chat and Google search engine experience, as dynamic knowledge panels, but if I’m asking about a transactional query or a research query, it’s more like a multi-faceted featured snippet. Brilliant! Thank you. You’ve just made that really clear for me, and I was making the mistake of thinking it was either one or the other, but it’s actually both, brilliant. We’re both coming back to tech, I think it’s gitter. Does it mean Bing search or static pages are also influenced by Bing Chat?
[00:25:32] Fabrice Canel: This is a multifacet question, so is the question is static pages won’t be retrieved and you need to change them from a SEO standpoint to be servicing in being [shut]?
[00:25:48] Fabrice Canel: Maybe not really. Again, you have some very good static content on the internet that is sticking forever, that is there. This is really, this is a really relevant, perfect, we call that perfect content on the internet for this type of queries. So, if this is about changing the content, making it more fresher it may not matter so much.
Unveiling the Essence of Perfect Content and User Satisfaction in Search Experience
[00:26:13] Fabrice Canel: For sure, if you search about events in the world, you are more looking about the latest events that is happening in the world, so then, this is freshness of [using] matters. So, freshness of a content, or if a page is static or dynamic, often what we care is satisfying the user, that’s it.
[00:26:33] Fabrice Canel: It’s not about you should not tweak, to have a lattice content and update your publication date every day, to think that we are fresher, doesn’t matter. At the end, it’s all about satisfying the user.
[00:26:45] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You mentioned perfect content. You have a concept of perfect content, which is the evergreen stuff that will always rank.
[00:26:54] Fabrice Canel: So, we call that perfect because it’s perfect.
[00:27:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We’ll come back to that, sorry. Let’s finish with perfect content. Then we’ll come back to the perfect click.
[00:27:09] Fabrice Canel: Sure. So, what is perfect content? It’s a content that is highly satisfying the user.
Enhancing Bing Webmaster Tools: Insights into Search and Chat Data Separation
[00:27:15] Fabrice Canel: For this query, you query for something can be exceptionally good, but then this may not have you see match another query. So for this kind of query for your intent, then you can if you see this link and you visit this page, you can be very, extremely satisfied. You want your query for YouTube again, more likely we see all these clicks coming to the YouTube homepage because more likely this is your intent and this is satisfying for user.
[00:27:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Slightly off topic for a couple of questions here, speaking out of the box, really appreciate providing at least some insights into Bing Chat use. Are there plans to separate out the data from search and chat in the near future?
[00:28:08] Fabrice Canel: We will. So, first we have improved Bing Webmaster Tool a few weeks ago, last month, where we have enabled. First, we have expanded the Bing performance report, and now are reporting not only before it was only web plus some called annexing data, and now we have extended that to report on web plus chat.
[00:28:30] Fabrice Canel: We have extended to report also on news, image, video, knowledge panel. So this is far more data, which is always good for the SEO community because you can dig and find issues for your site, maybe issue with Bing, please, we have tools to help you. So, encouraging everybody to go to Bing Webmaster Tool to visit and collect data and see what this is all about.
Bing Webmaster Tools: Empowering Webmasters and SEOs for Enhanced Site Optimization
[00:28:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): With Bing Webmasters, what you’re doing is saying we’re going to give you the data to the SEO community so that you can help your clients help us help them, if that makes sense.
[00:29:11] Fabrice Canel: True. So this is fundamentally Bing Webmaster Tool is a tool for the webmaster to get more user visiting their site. How? By fixing and fixing issues at Bing, but also offering data to help optimizing pages for all search engines.
[00:29:29] Fabrice Canel: So, it can be specific to Bing, obviously, we will tell you if you are indexed or not at Bing, and you can fix that if, assuming you want this page to be indexed, and providing guidelines, but also providing tools for all search engine. An example of data that we are providing that you may not find in Google Search Console, this is backlinks. We offer backlinks, not only for your site, but for any site. So, you can compare your site, and so let’s say a competitor site and see who is looking to the competitor site. We offer also something that is unique, that is Site Explorer, where you can drill into your site to know not only the links on your site, the pages on your site, but also the most click page impressions. So, you can navigate your site through the number of clicks and impressions. Unique. Again, this chat, this is not about Bing Webmaster Tools, so I will pause that, but I encourage everybody to go to Bing Webmaster Tool.
The Future of Search: Predicting the Evolution of 10 Blue Links and User Satisfaction
[00:30:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): If you’re not going to Big Webmaster Tools every single day, you’re missing out on a huge trick.
[00:30:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Next, we’ve actually got Austine has asked this question. Austine is a Kalicube Pro agency, so, great friend of ours, working with us, using Kalicube Pro to help his clients with knowledge panels and brand SERPs and digital strategies. Here’s a huge question is, basically, will 10 blue links disappear?
[00:30:55] Fabrice Canel: Again, personally, I do not believe that. I don’t know if mindset of people evolve and they really prefer chat, why not? Again, I still feel that there is a set of queries where the 10 blue links are highly satisfying the user today, so this mean, you query for specific query, navigational query.
The Essence of Blue Links: Navigational Simplicity and Evolution in Search Results
[00:31:20] Fabrice Canel: You just don’t, certainly don’t want to, at least me, I don’t want to have an experience where there is asking me more questions. No, no. I want to click this link, this is the link, I know where I want to go. I don’t remember the domain names, but I want to go there.So, this is a directory address book where, okay, this is, oh, I know where is it, perfect, thank you. I’m done, I am visiting the site now. This is when you don’t really need a huge experience and you need really this navigational story, so blue links satisfy your need.
[00:31:56] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I mean, the Blue Link, from that perspective, it’s already old school in the sense that you need the blue links, but you also need video results, you need image results, you need multimedia content, but whatever happens, all of this content is always going to be there, philosophically, behind the scenes. So, philosophically for us, at least, the blue links will always exist, whether or not they disappear from the search, results is a different question.
Tailoring Content Augmentation: A Strategic Approach Based on Query and Context
[00:32:26] Fabrice Canel: It’s not necessarily obviously to augment your content and to do very complex things on your pages, depending on what the pages are all about. Again, if you are the government website to tell information about the government, you may not want to add video and multimedia and image and whatever. You really want to have people be able to find this website and to link this website where you will provide information on taxes and regulation and whatever. So, this is all about, at the end, is being visible and offering a link to the website. If you are a recipe website, oh yeah, you want to augment your recipe with ingredients and images because it will attract the clicks.
[00:33:16] Fabrice Canel: So, depending on the queries and the context, you may not want to add too much information. It’s really about, if you are searching for Jason Barnard, oh yes, you want the image of Jason, you want the text, you want to know who this is. So this is, yes, you want to add information to your pages to retrieve this info.
Optimizing Answer Cards and PAA Answer Carousel through Entity Selection and User Intent
[00:33:39] Fabrice Canel: Who is this person?
[00:33:43] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Before we get back on track, really quickly, this question from, oh, sorry, I’ve got mixed up now. I’m in the wrong place of the list. Jeannie Hill asked this question. How do you select entities for answer cards in your PAA answer carousel?
[00:34:00] Fabrice Canel: So again, this is fundamentally about what we call wall page ranking. This is about really understanding the intent of a user and placing the best answers in the page. Again, you search for YouTube to, again, come back to this query, you really want to navigate to YouTube, you don’t want, more likely a YouTube answer with the address of YouTube company information, no, it says you want the link. Again, knowledge of the internet, understand that we are able to understand that for a specific query, we can obviously classify the query, classify the intent of the user, and we’ll display the app, the best widget, that this is blue links, chat, we have an answer, and so on, based on this intent of the user.
Unraveling Bing’s SERP Elements: Insights on Algorithmic Selection and User Satisfaction Strategies
[00:34:59] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, the selection of which elements you put on the SERP is a lot to do with presumably the bidding system that Gary has talked about at Google, but also what Nathan Charm has talked about with your Darwin algorithm, which he found delightful, and I find delightful, the whole page algorithm that can actually override the Darwinistic system that I described.
[00:35:22] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Here, well, Jeannie’s question was, why did you pick, for example, these actors? Presumably it’s because Bing, not you personally, obviously, perceives Jason Barnard as a voice actor because of the Boowa and Kwala series, and therefore you think that other voice actors would be relatively interesting for somebody who’s searching my name?
[00:35:45] Fabrice Canel: It can be your knowledge or previous queries about what people were doing when we were searching for your name or similar, double quote entity, your own entity. So, it’s all about, really, often this is satisfying the user on this query, but it’s also about suggesting potential related queries. Five years ago, 10 years ago, you have a blue links and you have remember this widget with related queries where this was related queries.
The Dynamics of Entity Integration: Evolving Related Searches for Enhanced User Satisfaction
[00:36:24] Fabrice Canel: Notice, you have still some related queries from some queries, but it’s mostly about related kind of entities and related things that is happening to this person. As people are using that, liking that, we see that there is benefit and obviously we will continue using that or optimize to something else as we go and understand to satisfy the user.
[00:36:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Number one is I’ve noticed that there are more entities in the related searches and the more entities in the searches because he’s saying, well, this entity that we’re searching for in the brand SERP world, at least, would potentially lead the person to be interested in this other entity. If I added a do-word to my query, that could potentially change the entities.
[00:37:11] Fabrice Canel: Yes, anything that is additional to the query may help your user to do one way or the other, do things that is helping the search engine to better understand your query and to retrieve the best entity, the best widget for your query. Again, you should try out. It’s really depending on, not only your query, past queries, your profile, everything is in play to really again satisfy the user.
The Quest for Perfection: Defining the “Perfect Click” in Search Behavior
[00:37:41] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Thank you for that question, Jeannie. It helped me to ask a new question I hadn’t thought about before. Next question is, what is the perfect click?
[00:37:49] Fabrice Canel: This is the click, that is perfect. Let’s change, not speak about YouTube, let’s go to Wikipedia. Again, you query for Wikipedia and then clearly you click the Wikipedia link.
[00:38:13] Fabrice Canel: Clearly we see that the user is not coming back, it’s staying on Wikipedia, it does not click back and click the second link to try to find Wikipedia. No, the first Wikipedia link was the good one, because this is a perfect click.
[00:38:32] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, the perfect click is the end of the search session, or at least that section of it, where the person goes away and has found the answer or the solution they were looking for.
Unveiling the Dynamics of User Satisfaction and Intent Evolution
[00:38:46] Fabrice Canel: He, she can go away and yeah, we do believe that it’s a very highly satisfactory click, but it’s also the customer may come back quickly and search for something else because when you are searching, what is the store open hours? You click, you click back, and then you search, okay, what, store, tomato soup thing.
[00:39:16] Fabrice Canel: So, the intent of the query has completely changed. You were satisfied. Yes, you have suddenly said, click, click.
[00:39:24] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So it’s not the bounce rate that counts. It’s next query related to the previous.
[00:39:30] Fabrice Canel: It’s clearly everything, content and everything can be depending on the query, depending on the user, depending on what also other users are doing.
The Pursuit of the Ultimate Perfect Click and SERP Domination Strategies
[00:39:39] Fabrice Canel: Sometimes you may have this one-off thing and it may not be judged as a perfect click because maybe the customer was changing context, the kid came to ask another question and then we were searching for something else. So again, you need data to assess if this was a very exceptional click or not, or you need a judgment to see if this click was satisfactory or not.
[00:40:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Now, to come back to Brand SERPs, what I think now is the brand SERP is the ultimate perfect click because wherever I click, if I searched for Kalicube in this example, wherever I click, it’s the perfect click because I’m clicking on the aspect of Kalicube that I was interested in. Therefore, Kalicube is founded on the perfect click and perfect content.
[00:40:34] Fabrice Canel: If you are owning something, a brand, a product, you want to dominate the SERP. You don’t want to see your competitors. You really want to see most of the links linking to you, except especially if some links tell you, oh, this product is really better than the other one.
[00:40:58] Fabrice Canel: So this is all about, at the end, yeah, this is about dominating the SERP as SEO, to be there in order that if people click in the blue links, they see you, if they click in the navigation entity knowledge panel, they see you, you are everywhere. You are dominating the SERP, yes.
Evolving SEO: Beyond SERPs to Chat Experience and Crafting Perfect Clicks
[00:41:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, our job at Kalicube is to help our clients create the full set of perfect clicks with perfect content behind it. How lovely. That’s completely changed my perception of what we do at Kalicube and it’s so simple.
[00:41:32] Fabrice Canel: Us think that the customer are evolving and search engine are evolving. So, not only you have to dominate the SERP, but you have to dominate chat. You have to dominate this kind of conversation on SERPs.
[00:41:44] Fabrice Canel: So, never forget that you, did very great via this screenshot, but this is for the SEO community. I see way too many focus still on the SERP and not enough focus on the chat experience and conversation experience where we see really stellar clicks in terms of what we are offering to the user is the ability to have this kind of perfect clicks. We aim to have perfect clicks all the time. In search, we have perfect clicks, but there is a set of queries that is not correctly formulated by the user, we try to do our best to retrieve the best content. Here in chat there is this whole experience and all this chat experience where we are able to land really the perfect clicks, and so this is more qualified clicks and so I encourage everybody in the SEO community to pay attention to this because these clicks are still are good quality clicks, so please have a look.
Journey Towards the Perfect Click: Optimizing Content to Satisfy User Intent and Dominate Brand SERPs
[00:42:44] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I don’t know what we would call it. It’s the journey towards the perfect click, that’s what we should all be doing. Brand SERPs obviously is my obsession, but the aim is to create the content that will satisfy fully the perfect content that satisfies the perfect click.
[00:43:04] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): What I liked about Bing Chat when I did this is a) how fast it is with all the stuff that’s going on behind it. This description here, as we go through is showing us what a knowledge panel is using all these different resources and in fact they use the SEMrush article that I wrote and SEMrush unfortunately rewrote it, kept some of my content and gave somebody else the authorship of it, which I’m quite annoyed about.
[00:43:30] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Then we come down here and you said as a brand you need to dominate. As soon as we say, compare the knowledge graph and the knowledge panel, Kalicube is cited multiple times because we talk about it and we have, let’s say, the perfect content to answer that question about the distinction between the knowledge panel and the knowledge graph.
The Role of Structured Data Markup and NLP in Search Engine Training and Relevance
[00:43:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We’ve got a question from [Jano], who is the world’s most obsessed person about schema markup. He wants to know, do your machines consume and use structured data markup for training purposes or do you base it mostly on NLP?
[00:44:11] Fabrice Canel: Adding search engine we spoke about magic and LLMs and this is all beautiful magic.
[00:44:20] Fabrice Canel: We should not forget really the basic of whose LLMs are formed and what is feeding them to help not only the LLM but also the index to be relevant. So, having fast indexing system, please adopt IndexNow to get your content. IndexNow, this new protocol that is adopted by already plenty of search engine and far more are coming, surprise in few weeks that will get will get your content in search engine very fast in term of second, this is a ping notification to get the content in. Second is that have your content based on basic template, don’t do the craziness things with plenty of AJAX calls to retrieve a content that Rick, the developer developing that will be great, will be very happy, but from search enginer, this is a disaster.
Empowering Machine Learning with Structured Data: Optimizing Content for Enhanced Understanding and Relevance
[00:45:19] Fabrice Canel: The machine learning is all about learning from a set of documents and then aligning to some judgment. The more basic you are, the more standardized you are, the better this is for the search engine. As part of this, you really want to help the content to be understood by search engine.
[00:45:44] Fabrice Canel: Mean, not only add HTML tags, appropriate HTML tags to differentiate the headings from the paragraph and so on, but add structured data to help the index and help LLM to really understand what this is all about, what your content is all about. So, all this information is leveraged real time as soon as we call the page for the index.
Life Cycle of LLM and SEO: Understanding the Timely Dynamics and Impacts on Relevance and Indexing
[00:46:13] Fabrice Canel: LLM has a different life cycle, the SEO community may want to educate that, because the SEO community does not have this notion, but LLM are not built at the same, this is not the same life cycle than building an index, building an index is real time. Again, you use index now, you will get your content index in seconds, added, updated, deleted information.
[00:46:35] Fabrice Canel: In LLM, it takes weeks, months, more likely years to build the new LLM tech. So, this is important for the SEO community because you have to do it right now, as soon as possible to be part of the next LLM version. This won’t be, I fixed today, next week, it’s fixed in LLM, no, it won’t.
Navigating the LLM Life Cycle: Strategic Actions for Current and Future Relevance in Search Algorithms
[00:47:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Well, we had this conversation with Jano, indeed, about the timescale for LLMs, and Jano has suggested a year, and you seem to agree with the LLMs of next year are going to be using the data that’s being collected right now.
[00:47:15] Fabrice Canel: If you think about all search engines, this is a life cycle that you need to target. You may have iteration in the middle, but really this is, fundamentally, this is about doing the right thing now, today.
[00:47:29] Fabrice Canel: Doing the right things benefit not only for search engine indexing, but also for LLMs. So, let’s be grounded, search engine provide guidelines in what you should do and not do. Let’s avoid the crazy AJAX calls, 20 AJAX call to build a page and let’s be grounded into basic things that really works from the SEO standpoint.
[00:48:00] Fabrice Canel: Leverage ,a great content management system that are SEO compatible to make your content out-of-the box friendly for search engine and for LLMs.
Navigating the Search Engine Dances: Real-time Index, Knowledge Panel, Knowledge Graph, and LLM Dynamics
[00:48:18] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That brings me to another thing is I remember the Google dance. I’ve been around so long that I remember the Google dance, which was you would update your content, you would have to wait three months for Google to update its index, same thing with Microsoft. The Google dance was, once they released the new index, you would then find out if your super tricks in SEO had worked or not. If it hadn’t, you had to wait another three months to see if the next trick worked. So there’s this dance of waiting and learning patience.
[00:48:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I now think that we have multiple, let’s call them search engine dances going on now, which is the index with index now is pretty much real time, but then you have the knowledge panel dance, which is a few weeks. The knowledge graph, yours and Google’s, which is a month to three months, and LLMs, which is a search engine dance of the year. Would that be fair comment?
[00:49:17] Fabrice Canel: Yeah. I spoke about hockeystick at Bing, and clearly this was a hockeystick related to relevance of the results, but clearly has improved. So this has not translated to some change in a number of clicks for some specific website, especially a low quality website that may have seen less traffic coming to them. I think in general, we avoid this big change, big wave of thing, because this is constantly ongoing, mean there is always improvement. The life cycle of a big engineer is to dream about relevance improvement, to go to work the morning, to be able to code and test this experiment. The afternoon, this engineer will start to get feedback, and next day, if it’s good, then we can start writing and testing and rolling the change. So this is multiple hundreds of experiments that are done on a course of a day to really test things and the one that are good goes live.
[00:50:29] Fabrice Canel: So, this is continuous improvement. It’s not waves of improvement, as we may see often in other search engines.
Navigating the AI Hockeystick: Staying Grounded in SEO Basics Amidst Rapid Technological Advancements
[00:50:37] Jason Barnard: So, I call it the Google dance because at Bing, there isn’t a Bing dance because it’s all evolution whereas Google has the dance going on, which is me saying it, not Fabrice, just to be really, really clear, I’m making all this up as I go along. Next question along was the hockeystick. AI, right now, seems to be this hockeystick that just will never stop, and it’s going to get faster and faster and bigger and bigger and more and more complicated, and we’re all going to get left behind, we can’t keep up, we’re all tired, and we’re all desperately trying to figure all this out, and we’re frightened that it’s never going to stop, and we’re never going to get a moment to breathe.
[00:51:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Is that what’s going to happen, Fabrice?
[00:51:21] Fabrice Canel: Again, at the end is what SEO should do. First thing is read the SEO guidelines from search engine. There is a lot to say, there is a lot in the press, generated AI, blah, blah, blah, a lot, this is the information keep coming. At the end is let’s be grounded, let’s go back to the basic and what search engine are communicating because there is so much of AI things that people may forget the basic.
Navigating SEO Guidelines: A Foundation for Grounded Strategy Amidst Technological Complexity
[00:51:49] Fabrice Canel: I feel search engine guidelines are written by search engine every two to three years. We are revising the guidelines, Google, LLMs, and others. We write the guidelines. I can assure you, we spend time to think what we need to communicate because it needs to stick for some time.
[00:52:07] Fabrice Canel: This is things that we are truly thinking, we are helping yourself by communicating these guidelines because then we have less indexing issues if people follow the guidelines. So this is, we try our best to tell exactly what you should do to be indexed and ranked in search engine, and also things that you should not do to not be ranked in search engine, because we can be detected as spam, and so please don’t do that.
[00:52:37] Fabrice Canel: So please spend time to read guidelines and to understand what this is all about. This is telling you that, yes, in this landscape of a lot of communication and things to do, you have to do, again, these basic foundation blocks that is helping you where you are grounded and then you can focus on what?
Embracing the SEO Journey: Leveraging Technology and Content to Satisfy Users Amidst Ongoing Advancements
[00:52:55] Fabrice Canel: You can focus on two things. The content and your customer to satisfy the customer because all the technology will be there. Use content management system as Duda, as Wix, things that are really SEO compatible and then you are building on this to get your content index on the top of it and you focus on this content, hockeystick back to back. Yes, the technology at Bing, yes, we have access to new technology, this was plateauing and improving, and we have a big hockeystick here, and we continue to have hockeystick to improve.
[00:53:31] Fabrice Canel: This is exponential, this is moving higher, better, and I still feel that we are still at middle school. We are not yet in high school, not yet in the university. So there will be other technology coming. Someday we will be quantum computer that will help us even more to go to even more satisfy the user.
Embracing the Search Engine Tech Evolution: Hockeysticks and Plateau
[00:53:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I’ll use that as the example is we have that hockeystick we can see on the right there and then a plateau and we could imagine that AI is that hockeystick and there’s going to be a plateau. I’m sorry, that hockeystick with the AI is what you called a tech layer, followed by a plateau, followed by another hockeystick, which is the next tech layer.
[00:54:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, from our perspective, two reasons not to be too worried. Number one is there’s going to be a plateau so we can breathe. Number two is we don’t need to necessarily understand all of this stuff. We just need to create great content for the user, which is what we’ve been told all along. At the end of the day, we can let you worry about the technology behind the search engine.
[00:54:40] Fabrice Canel: If I am a SEO, I will use the best in class in terms of content management system. I will for sure adopt [NXNO] if the content management system is not supporting [NXNO]. I will have a sitemaps and then I will focus on really my content, satisfying the customer. Satisfy the customer, I didn’t say satisfy the search engine.
[00:54:59] Fabrice Canel: Don’t optimize for search engine, optimize for your customer. Have customer going to the site being delighted by your content, by the experience on your site. This is who you should market, not the search engine. Search engine should be just part of the landscape.
LLMs and Lag Time: Understanding the Evolution and Future Trends
[00:55:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Here’s a question from Russ Jeffrey, and he started with, I assume, when he asked this next question, the OpenAI Chat GPT extension into Bing, and this is the question, will the lag time decrease over time?
[00:55:32] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, we’ve got currently, he’s talking about Google, but the LLMs, you’re saying it’s a year lag or a year dance that we’re having with them. Will that decrease over time?
[00:55:46] Fabrice Canel: The technology today to build LLM is what this is and it takes not days. I explained that the life cycle of LLM, of content and next generation is faster than the LLM.
[00:56:03] Fabrice Canel: Yeah, so depending on when the LLM is released, you may see that one LLM may be fresher for a few weeks until the other LLM catch up, but it’s wavy. This is a wave. This is not real time. This is not second like search engine. So technology is improving. Again, at Bing, you don’t have this problem at all because we are leveraging LLM, but we are also leveraging the index itself.
The Emerging Trend of Personal Rebranding: Navigating Name Ambiguity in the Digital World
[00:56:26] Fabrice Canel: So you have a double benefit and then you have highly relevant results. I mean, as new terms are happening on the internet, we are aware of these terms and people, maybe Jason Barnard will be even stellar something. You change your name, you have a new name and we’ll be aware of it where the LLM won’t be aware of that.
[00:56:45] Fabrice Canel: So, that we are able to understand, and then we will query for, yeah, this person, in fact, was named Jason Barnard before, and we will retrieve the content for Jason Barnard.
[00:56:55] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Which is a really great point from my perspective. There’s going to be a huge demand for personal rebranding because of the ambiguity of everybody’s name, we’re going to have a lot of people like Olga Zarr, who changed because her name was complicated, so that’s a really bad example, but Mark Preston, we helped him to rebrand to Mark A. Preston to reduce that ambiguity and to improve his brand SERP. He rebranded and he said, after three months, it was really weird for me not to see Mark A. Preston. My perspective as Jason Barnard, there are 300 Jason Barnards, and I can see them catching up with me and they’re not doing any work on it. So, at some point I’m going have to rebrand to Jason M. Barnard or Jason Martin Barnard in order to avoid that ambiguity and we’re all going have to rebrand however good we are at SEO and brand SERP management. For me, that’s a huge, huge, huge question that people aren’t yet thinking about.
Enhancing Brand SERP Precision Through Thoughtful Rebranding Strategies
[00:57:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Would you agree or are you not allowed to give an opinion on that?
[00:57:51] Fabrice Canel: At the end is if you are able to differentiate yourself, if you are a Jaguar, is it the car or the animal, clearly this is something that may help or search engine will have to help, but if there is a six million Jason Barnard, yeah, this is a little bit difficult for search engine to land the perfect Jason Barnard on the initial query if customer do not specify additional context.
[00:58:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, if I rebrand, I increase the chances of getting the perfect SERP, the perfect content and the perfect click. Last question is what is happening with Machine Judges ML Quality Raters? I’ll just give everybody a little bit of context here. I found this large language models can accurately predict searcher preferences through, I think it was this LinkedIn post by somebody at Microsoft.
Advancements in Machine Judging and Its Impact on Quality Raters
[00:58:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Can you explain what’s going on here? Equality raters, you call them human judges. Are they going to lose their jobs?
[00:58:56] Fabrice Canel: So, first, I have no doubt that you use Bing to find this deep content.
[00:59:02] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Sorry, just to be really, really frank. For the last six months I’ve been using Bing a lot more than I used to.
[00:59:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I’ve been using it because of Bing Chat, and also I want to understand, and I find this hugely interesting, but also because the chat experience is really good fun. Yes, I found that on Bing.
[00:59:20] Fabrice Canel: Thank you. Fundamentally, yeah, as technology is improving the team disclosed that they are experimenting with ability to judge content based on queries. So, what does it mean? It means that the technology is able to not only understand deeply the profile of a user, to understand what he or she query, queries in the past, and really retrieve based on the links in the search result page. The content and to judge the content for this set of queries and a profile of a user.
The Role of Human Expertise in Evaluating Search Quality
[01:00:04] Fabrice Canel: So, this is something that is explored, something that the team disclose, what this is all about. I think this is the human, this is not replacing the human at all. The human is still this expertise in this nuance at least for now, I don’t know, in 60 years from today, but clearly for now clearly the human has still a big play to really understand and make sure that whatever technology we use is appropriate and do not derail.
[01:00:36] Fabrice Canel: We are learning also as we go with these experiences. So, we are always encouraging customers to provide feedback if they see something that is wrong with this new technology. For any blue links, this is if you see something that is totally inappropriate or bad, but also we are here to to collect feedback and to tune the technology in order that these things that may be leaking do not appear anymore.
[01:01:06] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, machine judges is a reality. It allows you to figure out the quality of the SERPs, but humans will never be out of the loop because they have intuition. They have culture, they have humor, they understand irony which the machine won’t. Thank you so much, Fabrice. I know we’ve taken a lot of your time.
Upcoming Google Update Announcement and Farewell
[01:01:28] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It’s been a whole hour. Thank you so much for sharing all of that. I’m just going to really quickly announce that we’ve got free downloadable guides. Please take a screenshot of this so you can copy the link into your browser on Microsoft Edge, preferably. These are great. We’re looking at generative AI. We’re looking at Kalicube Pro for agencies.
[01:01:46] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We’re looking at the knowledge panel Handbook. I’m just announcing next week, Google’s Killer, Whale, 2023 E-E-A-T Knowledge Graph Update. I’ve been in the business for 25 years. This is the biggest update on Google I have ever seen. This is going to be absolutely huge. 25 years, I’ve never seen anything even come close to this.
[01:02:08] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Thank you, Fabrice. Sorry for talking about Google whilst you were on the screen. As a reward or a punishment, depending on how you look at it, you get the song. A quick goodbye to end the show. Thank you, Fabrice and thank you everybody for watching.
[01:02:25] Fabrice Canel: Thank you, Jason. Thank you all.
[01:02:28] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Kalicube. It’s all about your brand SERP.