Jason Barnard is known as The Brand SERP Guy – a digital marketer who specializes in Brand SERPs and Knowledge panels. Brand SERPs, or brand search engine results pages, are the search engine results shown when someone specifically Google’s your brand name or personal name.
Company: He is the founder and CEO at Kalicube – a groundbreaking digital marketing agency that pioneers the concept of Brand SERP optimization and knowledge panel management.
Author: Jason is a regular contributor to leading digital marketing publications such as Search Engine Journal and Search Engine Land and regular guest on others such as Wordlift, SE Ranking, SEMrush, Search Engine Watch, Searchmetrics, and Trustpilot.
Speaker: He regularly gives conferences at major marketing conferences worldwide including BrightonSEO, PubCon, SMX series, and YoastCon.
Podcast Host: Spanning 3 seasons, “With Jason Barnard” has become a staple for digital marketers. The conversations are always intelligent, always interesting… and always fun! Guests include Rand Fishkin, Barry Schwartz, Eric Enge, Joost de Valk, Aleyda Solis, Bill Slawski… Over 180 episodes are available. And counting!.
[00:00:00] Jonathan Payne: If you’ve got this kind of ecosystem, this living thing that lives and breathes around your whole brand presence, that’s like you were saying that’s where success really happens, that’s where the table doesn’t fall over. Because at some point, Google is going to change. At some point, the Facebooks and Instagrams of the world are going to change something. And that leg of your table is going to get shaved off a little bit. I don’t know where the analogy goes after that.
[00:00:31] The Brand SERP Guy: Your cup of tea slides off the table, breaks on the floor, and you’ve lost your entire tea time enjoyment. But, a hundred percent. I really liked the way you put that. And the idea as well, the repurposing idea, is to say, right, video on YouTube or video on Facebook or whatever it might be is where I’m engaging my audience. So, I’m going to make content that really suits that audience in that place at the time they’re looking at it on the device they’re looking at it and I will serve them. And then, I will try if I can to repurpose it to get Google as a bonus. That’s where you’re winning. If you say, I create content that pays for itself on the platform it’s on with the audience it’s aimed at in the circumstances they find themselves in, then I think, how can I repurpose it for Google? If I can, I do. And I get a bonus. Google is the bonus.
Introducing The Members of The NerdBrand Podcast and a Small Talk About Names and Places
[00:01:35] Jason Davis: Welcome to The NerdBrand Podcast, everybody. I’m Jason, that’s Jon, that’s Mitch, and this is another Jason. So, see there are more than one of us.
[00:01:45] The Brand SERP Guy: How delightful is that?
[00:01:46] Jason Davis: I know.
[00:01:48] Jonathan Payne: I’m scared.
[00:01:48] Jason Davis: I think the name was popular in the, well, obviously I was born in ’76, so the name was popular that’s why I think my parents chose it. So, I don’t know if you know the backstory of why your parents maybe named you Jason, but that’s why I’m named it.
[00:02:04] The Brand SERP Guy: Well, actually, interestingly enough, my parents were in America just before I was born. Both my sisters were born in America, and I was conceived in America but born in the UK. And they brought the name, Jason, back from the US, and they gave me the name so that I stood out a little bit from the other people in my horrible country village in Yorkshire. It created torture for me. Yeah. But so in fact, my name comes from America rather than the other way around. And maybe after 10 years, your parents caught up with the rest of America.
[00:02:41] Jason Davis: Probably.
[00:02:43] Mitch Gregory: It usually takes about 10 years for trends to arrive in Kentucky. So, yeah.
[00:02:48] Jason Davis: 10 years? Maybe a little longer than that. We’re very traditional. My parents were going to call me Chance, and then my dad was, no, no, he’s not gonna be called that because then in school he’d be made fun of like fat chance, no chance, a lot of chance. My dad was on it then. He was like, no, I’m not calling him that.
[00:03:09] Jonathan Payne: Good to know. Good to know.
[00:03:11] Jason Davis: Yeah. It’s good to know. Just a little tidbit for everybody out there that was listening now and going, wow, this podcast started very differently this time. And we do that.
[00:03:19] The Brand SERP Guy: I thought this was totally, totally habitual for you. It started off with a discussion about names onto insulting Kentucky, and now, next step is insulting the UK.
[00:03:30] Jason Davis: Well, Kentucky is, I’m from, obviously people that don’t know, I live in Southern Indiana, but yeah, I am from Kentucky.
[00:03:38] The Brand SERP Guy: Right.
[00:03:39] Jason Davis: So, it’s not really insults. It’s more kind of like stating of a fact. It just is what it is. It’s very hot here in the summer to where you will melt, and everybody knows that. I think the biggest, one of the biggest insults, I guess if it was an insult, Jennifer Lawrence is the one that called it a swamp, and she did that on the Graham Norton show.
[00:04:00] Jonathan Payne: It’s toasty here.
[00:04:03] Jason Davis: Yeah.
[00:04:03] Mitch Gregory: Toasty and what they call muggy that is combination of heat and humidity is pretty bad in the heart of the summer time.
Introducing Jason Barnard as The Brand SERP Guy and the Importance of Making Sure Your Brand Looks Positive, Accurate, and Convincing
[00:04:13] Jason Davis: Anyways, Jason, go ahead. Introduce yourself. Tell us who you are, what you do. Tell us about your company. The floor is yours, sir.
[00:04:21] The Brand SERP Guy: Well, there’s a segue, I can say, I know muggy. I lived in Mauritius which is a tropical island in the Indian Ocean for 12 years where it’s incredibly, incredibly rainy and humid and very hot all year around. So, I feel for you guys. I’m now in Paris in France. I’m The Brand SERP Guy. I’m obsessed by Brand SERPs which is what appears on Google when somebody googles your brand name. People who’ll google your brand name are obviously the most important people to business that the people are bottom of funnel about to convert researching you, all your existing clients, all your investors or potential hires. And when they search your brand name, I am specialised in helping brands to make sure that it looks positive, accurate, and convincing to that audience.
[00:05:10] Jason Davis: Yeah. I don’t know if a lot of people have ever, I think they would Google their own name. They would Google the service. They think they’re probably wanting to optimise a keyword for, but I don’t think a lot, maybe a lot think about googling their brand name to see how they appear on the search engine.
[00:05:26] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah. And I’m absolutely convinced that it’s incredibly important. It’s your business card. When I talk to people, they Google my brand name, sort of my brand name, my personal name. But if I say Kalicube Pro which is my company, they’re going to Google that. What appears is phenomenally important. I just said it. And I can bet my bottom dollar or my bottom Euro or pound or whatever and see I went to betting. But there are at least three people who have just googled either Jason Barnard or Kalicube or Kalicube Pro, and at that point, that’s three people where I have an opportunity to make a positive impression. If they like me here, they like me on the Brand SERP, I think I’ve got a new friend, and we all need as many friends as we can get.
What Made Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) Decide to Pursue Optimising Brand SERPs as His Company
[00:06:13] Mitch Gregory: So, Jason, what made you decide to pursue this as a company? What was it that made you decide this is where I want to hang my hat on?
[00:06:24] The Brand SERP Guy: That is a brilliant question. Thank you very much. In Mauritius in the heat, I was a blue dog in a cartoon, and we were pretty successful. We made a TV series with ITV International. It was distributed around the world. It was reasonably successful. We had a big website. It was very successful. And then, I segued into digital marketing, and I would go and talk to potential clients. I would say, I’m going to build your digital strategy. It’s going to be wonderful. And I would sell it to them, give them my real physical business card, and walk out. And I didn’t convert as many as I would have expected.
[00:07:04] The Brand SERP Guy: And I always wondered why, well, for a couple of years. And I realised what happened is I would walk out of the room, and they would search my name. And what came up with Jason Barnard is a blue dog. And they would immediately say, I’m not interesting, my digital strategy to this idiotic cartoon blue dog. And I then set about making sure that what appeared was much more digital marketing. And the blue dog is still there because your Brand SERP needs to represent who you are, but it’s relegated in inverted commas to part of the Knowledge Panel.
[00:07:36] The Brand SERP Guy: So, the blue dog no longer dominates. And when you search my personal name, you will see digital marketing, Brand SERP Guy. I think I counted the other day, it’s 27 times it says brand on my Brand SERP, and that’s actively me working on it. And it says 15 times Knowledge Panel. So, basically, I’m saying when you see my Brand SERP, you know that I’m talking about Brand SERPs, Knowledge Panels. There was a blue dog in the story, but the blue dog is now relegated to a small little chunk in the Knowledge Panel.
[00:08:06] The Brand SERP Guy: And I think people and brands don’t realise how important it is to manage that message because that message is being sent out to the people who are most important to your business, who are bottom of funnel, post funnel, existing clients, potential hires, investors, journalists as well. They need to say something positive, accurate, and convincing and something that reflects your brand message for your personal brand.
Explaining What a SERP Is For The Ordinary People Out There
[00:08:32] Mitch Gregory: So for the great unwashed out there, I’m being a creative director, I come from the creative side of things, I make things pretty and make sure that images, colors, etcetera fit the persona of the brand, okay, I’m not a digital wizard by any stretch, for the great unwashed out there like me, explain exactly what SERP means.
[00:08:51] The Brand SERP Guy: All right. Yeah. Sorry. I do tend to geek out immediately and think everybody knows what a SERP is. But I think that’s the problem for us all is we get involved in our world and we forget that there is a wider world out there who don’t necessarily know all these acronyms. Acronyms are probably the worst thing in the world.
[00:09:09] Jason Davis: Yeah.
[00:09:09] The Brand SERP Guy: If I just said search engine results page from the beginning, the search engine results page for a search on your brand name, nobody would have been going, what is he talking about? And you just pointed out, nobody’s got a clue what I’m talking about because I use an acronym that I assumed everyone would know and could potentially mean lots of other things.
[00:09:29] The Brand SERP Guy: So, yeah. SERP, search engine results page in Google but also in Bing. I think we shouldn’t forget Bing who are quite important in certain areas. What appears when your audience search your brand name, be it Google, Bing, DuckDuckGo, Yandex, whatever it might be, is phenomenally important because these people are close to your business, and as a human being, as a person they’re close to you as a human being, and obviously thinking about interacting with you in one way or another.
Fixing The Design and Image Boxes of Kalicube’s Brand SERP to Present a Better Visual Message
[00:10:02] Mitch Gregory: Cool, cool, cool. I know what it means now. Now as in today.
[00:10:08] The Brand SERP Guy: But in terms of design, you said design. I was really surprised. My ex-wife is a graphic designer. And I had been just pushing images out. We separated years ago, and I just thought, ah, who cares? Just pushed all these images out. And all my Brand SERP, the image boxes appeared. And I looked at it and say, a) it’s ugly, b) there’s no pattern, the colors don’t go together, and it doesn’t represent me. And I had these image boxes on my company brands of the Kalicube Brand SERP.
[00:10:40] The Brand SERP Guy: So I actually called my ex-wife and said, can you please help me? And she then went about creating a graphic design Bible with the colors, with the images, with the logo, the positioning of everything. And now you search it and might the visual image that my company projects is very, very clear. And I think a) we underestimate the value of a graphic designer who has talent, and b) we underestimate the message that that visual image projects to our audience, be it on a Brand SERP or elsewhere that the image, image in inverted commas, that is thrown across is not just the words, it’s the images. And that the images come actually before the words because we see before we read.
[00:11:26] Jason Davis: Right.
[00:11:27] Mitch Gregory: It’s interesting how it all ties, how branding all ties, the visual component of branding ties back, regardless of what medium or where you appear. We’re talking about on your SERP that having a consistent branding strategy is important there as much as it is any place else.
[00:11:48] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah. A hundred percent. And the consistency is incredibly difficult to manage. Even as a small company, you realise that things slipped through the cracks and that things appear in Google. And I think what is interesting from my perspective is I actually managed to pull all of that back and replace the inconsistent visual brand message that I put out over a couple of years with a consistent visual image, and it took me three months. So, you don’t have to think, ah, it’s all lost, I’ve messed it up. You can actually put it all back. And if you make a sustained effort, you can replace an entire visual representation of your brand, at least in Google, but also, probably across most social platforms in the space of about three months if you apply yourself.
Working on NerdBrand’s Google My Business Result Page and The Importance of Taking Care of One’s Visual Image
[00:12:35] Jason Davis: That’s really good to put a timeframe around that because, yeah, it takes a lot of time. This was a podcast before it was an agency, so there’s a lot of content out there from 2016 and 17 with NerdBrand’s name on it, different logo, different message, just different, right? Yeah. It took that a lot of time to start to clean that up and get that more uniform and in line with what we are now.
[00:12:58] Jason Davis: And then, I got an email not too long ago about Google basically saying, hey, think about your images on your business page and your Google My Business. And I didn’t read the full statement cause they hadn’t had time this morning, but they put something in there like 90% of something interaction may be with those or because like you said, they see before they read. So, that’s been something that we’ve noticed on just some of the console reporting on the Google My Business pages, the images. People hitting those pretty hard now. So, I thought that was very interesting and important to fix. So, we worked on that recently ourselves with our page, our Google My Business result page.
[00:13:38] The Brand SERP Guy: Right. There’s a phenomenal amount of interaction, but not interaction in the sense of clicking interaction, in terms of seeing and digesting by people that we can’t necessarily measure but is incredibly important in people’s perception of who we are, what we do, and what we represent perhaps as well. And I think, Mitch, you’re the expert here. I’m talking about something I know very little about, but I definitely think taking care of your visual image is fundamentally important.
Taking Care of First Impressions Presented By a Trusted Source Like Google
[00:14:08] Mitch Gregory: It goes back to something that you said, Jason, about people. They see before they read. People are going to be gravitated toward images before they’re going to read a block of copy. But even how you treat the copy, how you treat your words visually is important. So, it all ties. People lock first from that visual impression, and that’s what should draw them into wanting to pursue further into reading more. It should move them in that process and that journey toward, okay, I want to read more. This has peaked my interest. It’s sparked my curiosity. It’s hit a hot button, an emotional hot button on inside me. I want to pursue this further.
[00:14:56] The Brand SERP Guy: Well, brilliant. And if I can pull this back to my pet topic which is the Brand SERP is that initial snap picture, and people fail to realise or brands fail to realise that it’s that first impression that you can never take back. And that first impression, it’s not a first impression that since you’ve already presented yourself, but it’s the first independent expression of who you are, what you do, and who your audience might be by Google who we all, like them or not, trust. We tend to trust what Google tells us.
[00:15:26] The Brand SERP Guy: So, that Brand SERP, what appears when somebody searches your brand name, is a snapshot of what Google thinks the world thinks of you. And that snapshot is incredibly powerful for people who are trying to make a decision about your brand, your person, whatever it might be. So, controlling it and making sure it’s positive, accurate, convincing at first glance and doesn’t need investigating, doesn’t need to be read in detail is phenomenally important. And that repetition of brand, 27 is too many, but you definitely can’t miss that. I’m talking about brands and Knowledge Panels.
[00:15:59] Mitch Gregory: Right. Right. The digital age has just made it worse because even before that people’s attention spans were starting to shrink because of how much media they are bombarded by. But now, it’s compounded to the nth degree because of their smartphones, their tablets, their computers, their smart televisions. You’ve got to make that impression so quickly now, so quickly. And like you said, I love what you said. You can’t get that first impression back. You can’t. The cliche I fall back on is you can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube. Once it’s out there, it’s out. Now, you’ve made even more work for yourself.
[00:16:36] The Brand SERP Guy: And I have tried to put the toothpaste back in the tube. And that comes and my favorite thing is saying now you might think, oh, Google will just show what it wants to show. That’s like saying I’m just going to wear the clothes my mother tells me to wear when I go to the prom party. Let your mother dress you, and you can see that you’re never going to talk to anybody from your prom throughout the entire evening. Don’t let Google, your mother, dress you. Choose your end clothes. Your mother will accept it. This is Google. Sorry. The analogy is starting to weaken as I talk more. But it’s up to you to tell Google and to convince Google to present you in the manner that you feel is relevant, helpful, and valuable to your audience because Google simply shows what it perceives to be relevant, helpful, and valuable to your audience. And if it’s not showing what is truly relevant, valuable, and helpful, it means it’s misunderstood. And if it’s misunderstood, it’s up to you to explain it.
[00:17:38] Jason Davis: Yeah.
How Do You Help Google Tell an Accurate Picture of Your Brand SERP
[00:17:39] Mitch Gregory: So, how you do that? How do we do that? How do we do that? You said Google tells people what it thinks the world thinks of you. I may have butchered that.
[00:17:51] The Brand SERP Guy: No, no. You did it perfectly, but it took a couple of minutes of thought.
[00:17:55] Mitch Gregory: Yeah. So, how do you help Google to tell an accurate picture?
[00:18:00] The Brand SERP Guy: Well, that’s another phenomenally good question and one that few people ever asked me. It comes back to John Mueller, who’s the guy at Google who interacts with people like me who geek out on how Google functions and what we can do to influence Google, and he’s talking about reconciliation. And Google’s biggest problem is saying, you say what you say, that’s great. We want to believe you, but we’re not going to believe you on your own good word. We need to corroborate that with other information around the web. The problem with other information on the web is that it’s terribly fragmented.
[00:18:35] The Brand SERP Guy: So, the machine goes around. It picks all this information and is going, I’m not sure I can make sense of this, but if on your website, on your page about your company you can be incredibly clear what it is you want to say, it has an anchor point, what I call an Entity Home, where I can say, right, this is what they want me to say. Does the information, fragmented though it is around the web, confirm what it is they’re trying to project. If it does, I will show that. If it doesn’t, obviously it won’t. So, you can’t just lie and expect Google to repeat your lies.
[00:19:09] The Brand SERP Guy: But it’s truly looking for you to explain to it what you think should be the representation of your brand to your audience, and your audience is simply a subset of its users. They have 5 billion users. Your audience is 100,000, 200,000, 50,000, whatever it might be. The audience is a subset of their users. So, they need to represent to your audience who are their users a helpful relevant representation of you, and they have no reason to not represent you honestly in the manner that you wish with your brand message if you can communicate clearly to Google what that is.
[00:19:54] Jonathan Payne: Oh, there it is.
[00:19:57] The Brand SERP Guy: Got to solve the world’s problems. Sorry, Jonathan.
Having Patience in SEO and How Content is Still Appreciated By Google Even if it Doesn’t Send Traffic
[00:20:03] Mitch Gregory: Jon, Jason, this is what we tried, and we did it recently. This is one of the first things I’ve actually tried to preach to people, especially they get into the whole idea of they want us to push that magic SEO button, which we all know doesn’t exist, but apparently a lot of people seem to think it does. It all comes back to this though.
[00:20:25] Jason Davis: I get a lot of people that are, right now I’m trying to push out when talking there’s no such thing as SEO content. I’m trying to get people to understand, stopping that thinking of just applying that acronym to something else, and then that, like Mitch said, magic button happens, and there it is. Push it, and we’re good.
[00:20:42] Jason Davis: Because it takes, we had Diana Richardson on the show from SEMRush, and she said, you need patience. That’s really what it is. You need patience. You need to prepare for the long haul, and it pays. And recently, there was a podcast she was on where they said, we wondered if we shot ourselves in the foot as marketers by saying the word organic and associating that with free because there’s no way it’s free.
[00:21:08] Jason Davis: This is what you just illustrated, Jason. That’s time. That is so much time and effort and knowledge to know where to go. Yeah. So it’s not just what, it’s where to go and look for it. That’s the key when it comes to knowledge or wisdom, if you will, or whatever you want to apply. So, that’s something that I think is just, because it’s such an unseen thing that it’s just figured, well, I think Mitch, did you coin the phrase? We’re not a gumball machine or something.
[00:21:36] Mitch Gregory: No, it was Jon. It was Jon. It’s brilliant.
[00:21:41] Jason Davis: Well, there you go. Yeah. You can’t just come in, pull it, and there it is.
[00:21:45] Mitch Gregory: Jon’s first axiom.
[00:21:48] Jonathan Payne: I’m aging.
[00:21:50] The Brand SERP Guy: That actually brings up multiple points is SEO content. I love the fact you brought that up. I’ve never really thought it through in this way. And you’ve just inspired me to look at it and say, some content will draw traffic from Google, some content needs to be built for that reason, but some content simply exists because your audience need it. And that content that isn’t for Google, that isn’t necessarily drawing traffic is still seen by Google, is still appreciated by Google even if it doesn’t send traffic.
[00:22:22] The Brand SERP Guy: And I actually had an example of a client who deleted an entire section of their blog because they said, oh, it doesn’t bring any traffic from Google, therefore we wasted our time, therefore we will delete it. And I would argue, you have just deleted a big chunk of content that proves that you’re an expert in your field, that you’re authoritative. And Google still sees it, and it still appreciates it. All you need to do now is look at Google. If you search your brand name, look through to pages 5, 6, 7, 8, start searching around your brand name with specific keywords, and you’ll see this content comes up. Google sees it. Google knows about it. And it does contribute to your overall image in Google’s mind and Google’s confidence in you as an expert within your field.
[00:23:08] The Brand SERP Guy: So, it don’t just say, we don’t have any traffic, therefore it’s useless, say, it doesn’t apply to our audience, it isn’t helpful to our audience, therefore it’s useless and we throw it away. But if it’s helpful to our audience, and we can leverage some of the value from it which is perhaps social, perhaps your newsletter, perhaps sharing it through different channels than Google, the fact that Google doesn’t send you traffic a) doesn’t mean it’s not valuable and b) doesn’t mean to say Google doesn’t see it and appreciate it.
Avoiding Failure in The Long Run By Creating Content For Other Media Engagements and Not Just For Google
[00:23:38] Mitch Gregory: To some extent, is that a trap marketers fall into? I have to create copy for my website. I have to create content from a website that is Google friendly that is going to be that magnet. I need to google to get hits on Google. Is there a little bit of a trap? It’s almost a little bit of a trap we fall into because your content has a larger picture. Like you said, I love what you said, it’s for your users, it’s for your customers, it’s for the people, your audience.
[00:24:15] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah, no, a hundred percent. And I think people make the mistake of saying every piece of content must be for SEO and Google and pulling in this organic, as you said, Jason, traffic. Every piece of content needs to have a goal, and you need to set the KPIs. You need to measure its performance by what the goal was.
[00:24:35] The Brand SERP Guy: So, if you’re writing a piece of content that is going to accompany a newsletter, the measure of success is what that newsletter, the interaction between that newsletter and your content. If you’re creating a piece of content that you then going to push out on social media, the social media engagement is what’s going to measure it. And if you create it for Google, the Google side of things is going to measure it. So, I think any brand with any long-term strategy isn’t going to just focus on Google. That’s a one trick pony, terribly out of sync business model.
[00:25:10] The Brand SERP Guy: If you rely on Google a hundred percent, the day there’s any kind of problem, you’re dead in the water. But if you’ve got Google, social media newsletters, engaged audience, returning customers, and you’ve got those for whatever it might be, there might be five, six pillars, I haven’t really thought it through, you can rely on all of them to bring in a steady flow of traffic conversion, whatever it is you’re looking for.
[00:25:32] The Brand SERP Guy: And if you create content for all of them, you’re creating a solid, balanced, digital strategy. And if you obsess about Google, you’re becoming this one trick pony that’s I like to think of tables with all the legs of different lenses and ends up falling over. That’s a really bad example. I could probably think of another one. Cups of tea sitting on tables that get out of balance and then just slip off. Maybe that’s a good one.
The Idea of a Content Ecosystem Around Your Brand and Repurposing Content to Get Google as a Bonus
[00:26:00] Jonathan Payne: Yeah. To me, I’ve been trying to push this, and I’m not the only one, but the idea of a content ecosystem around your brand. It’s not about putting your eggs all in social, all in video, although for certain brands, those can be the priority. It’s about, if you look in an efficiency resources standpoint, what can you create that can then be repurposed pretty easily or with minimal effort to live in other channels effectively, and how can you have a diverse content because there’s no single desire among your audience. Some people like video at certain times of the day or a certain week. And then the next, they’ll be more in the mood to read something about your brand.
[00:26:47] Jonathan Payne: If you’ve got this kind of ecosystem, this living thing that lives and breathes around your whole brand presence, that’s, like you were saying, that’s where success really happens, that’s where the table doesn’t fall over. Because at some point, Google is going to change. At some point, the Facebooks and Instagrams of the world are going to change something. And that leg of your table is going to get shaved off a little bit. I don’t know where the analogy goes after that.
[00:27:14] The Brand SERP Guy: Your cup of tea slides off the table, breaks on the floor, and you’ve lost your entire tea time enjoyment. But, a hundred percent, I really liked the way you put that. And the idea as well, the repurposing idea, is to say, right, video on YouTube or video on Facebook or whatever it might be is where I’m engaging my audience. So, I’m going to make content that really suits that audience in that place at the time they’re looking at it on the device they’re looking at it, and I will serve them. And then, I will try if I can to repurpose it to get Google as a bonus. That’s where you’re winning is you say, I create content that pays for itself on the platform it’s on with the audience it’s aimed at in the circumstances they find themselves in. Then I think, how can I repurpose it for Google? If I can, I do. And I get a bonus. Google is the bonus.
Getting Traffic From Google By Going Back and Re-Optimising Previous Content
[00:28:08] Jonathan Payne: We talk about content anchors a lot. I don’t know where that term came from, but I know that Jason and I have adopted it pretty strongly. And we have the podcasts that’s our content anchor, all of our content strategy, social strategy, YouTube strategy, all that emanates from grading this piece of content. I was going back to resources. You can’t be everywhere all the time, especially as a lean company or really as a lean marketing department. So, you’ve got to have this thing that does have various dimensions that is easy to build off of, and that it stays consistent with your message.
[00:28:49] Jonathan Payne: That’s the other thing we keep harping on is creating content for content’s sake or for a different channel. It might be tactically sound to create a different piece of content for social, but does it really align with all the other content that you’re creating? Does it all align with the message? Does it align with what ends up showing up in Google? So to me, those are the big takeaways.
[00:29:13] Jonathan Payne: And then, going back to the example you gave where they just stripped out tons of blog posts just because they weren’t getting traffic. It’s once you put a lot of effort into, presumably a lot of effort into creating that content the first go round, and you’ve put effort into promoting it probably in some various ways, I think a lot of people forget that, hey, you can go back and update content and Google really, they like that. They like to see the freshness. They like to see the expansion and the new information. You can salvage, you can get traffic from a blog post that’s done nothing for a year if you just go back, re-optimise it, look at what’s appearing in the search results for that particular term, and try to make a better piece of content. Right?
[00:30:02] The Brand SERP Guy: Sure. I think that’s a great point. Danny Goodwin from Search Engine Journal did a whole six months work on updating the content. I know Semrush did it as well with some of my articles. They came to me and they said, can we edit this article to update it? And I read the article and I was like, yeah, I wrote that three years ago. Yeah, I can make that. I can make it more relevant today.
[00:30:24] The Brand SERP Guy: And I’ve learned so much in the last three years that I can add to my new learning. It’s not the things have changed so much as I’ve learned lots of stuff, and I can make it more valuable today to people both because of the time aspect because things do change slightly, so I’m being a little bit contradictory there, but also because I can add more value. And what then happened, of course, is that you all started ranking much better, get more traffic from Google. Perhaps they weren’t getting traffic from Google before.
[00:30:52] The Brand SERP Guy: But that’s a great example of saying, you’ve got this content. It might not be performing. It doesn’t mean to say it can’t before. It just means that right now it’s not performing because Google doesn’t see it. And I think this is really important. Google doesn’t see it as a solution to a specific problem asked by its user or answer to a question. All Google is trying to do is answer the question of its user or solve that problem. And your pieces of content, if you want to please Google, need to provide the solution to a specific problem or the answer to a specific question that you are credible answering or helping with. That’s key.
Corroborating and Updating Information to Add Value to New Content Like a Mechanism That’s Got to Be Maintained
[00:31:31] Jonathan Payne: I think it goes back to, you talked earlier about you have to corroborate.
[00:31:35] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah.
[00:31:36] Jonathan Payne: I think I said that right. You have to corroborate the information that’s on your site. So, if that piece of content is not performing, again, it doesn’t mean it lacks value, and it doesn’t mean it can’t perform. It just means you may need to go out and do some PR around whatever topic that might be. You need to get some guest publishing going on on other sites that point back to that blog. So, there are additional tactics that you have to, layers to the strategy that you have to, you can’t just, it’s not a set it and forget it type of thing with any piece of content.
[00:32:09] Jonathan Payne: I think we all agree on that. But I think that’s something that a lot of our customers, I think they look at content as static. You create a video, and you put it out there, and it gets what you want eventually. It’s just not the way it works. You have to then take it another level and build that authority, right, and the things that point back to that piece of content to make sure that Google can verify that what you’re saying is correct.
[00:32:39] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah. As you said, an ecosystem. Because if you then create a new piece of content with relevance pour points to the old piece of content, you’re pulling people in. And then, you’re using that old content to add additional value to the person who’s coming for the new content. So, it is this constantly growing ecosystem that you need to nourish, and you need to add to, and you need to, as you said, go back. It’s not correcting, it’s updating. It’s making more relevant for today’s audience both because they’ve changed but also because you have.
[00:33:20] Mitch Gregory: It’s a mechanism that’s got to be maintained. To Jason’s point, to Jonathan’s point, you just don’t build it, fill it out there, and it goes. For the reasons that you just cited, it’s like a garden. You’re tending an ecosystem. It’s a garden. You’re tending this garden. You’re cultivating. You’re planting. You’re harvesting. You’re taking what you’ve harvested and putting those resources back into creating more content.
[00:33:48] Mitch Gregory: The whole flywheel analogy we started with way back when we first started the company. It’s a constantly moving mechanism. It doesn’t stop. You’re always fine tuning. You’re always adjusting. You’re always, because like you said, Jason, you’re always learning. Not that the content was wrong that you put out there is. The world changes. The internet changes daily. So, it’s something that you have to manage day to day for as long as your company, your business or entity exists.
What is NLP, Google’s Understanding of the World, and the Exponential Rate of Machine Intelligence
[00:34:21] Jason Davis: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And there was something that kind of changed gears here so we have time because, Jason, you were super passionate about this in our pre-interview. And so, Google, well, I got to get that answer. I want to say NPL but that doesn’t sound right.
[00:34:39] The Brand SERP Guy: It’s NLP.
[00:34:40] Jason Davis: Thank you. Tell us a little bit about that because you were super, super geeking out over that. I liked that. Can you share a little bit or do you want to share a little bit about that, what that means, and how that can influence a person’s results?
[00:34:59] The Brand SERP Guy: Well, I think one thing that’s really interesting about SEO is we’re all looking, as Mitch said, for that magic button, and that magic button simply doesn’t exist. What does exist is looking at what Google’s trying to achieve. And the fact that it isn’t necessarily there yet doesn’t change the fact that’s where it’s going and that’s where you need to aim. So, rather than looking at horizontally what you’re trying to do, looking at it from a parallel point of view, saying that’s where Google is going, that’s where I need to aim.
[00:35:32] The Brand SERP Guy: And where is Google going? Google is going towards a world where it fully understands the world in a manner similar to a human being which means that when you ask it a question just like the baker down the road which is the best bread for sandwiches with ham and cheese, for example, the baker knows the answer and will give you the answer and will provide the solution. Very bad example. I just tried to make it up, and it was rubbish, but there you go. We’ve had gardens, tables, bakers, and none of it really makes very much sense.
[00:36:07] Jason Davis: Those are simple. They’re great. No, it’s great.
Google Wants To Understand The World In a Way Human Understands The World Through The Knowledge Graph
[00:36:11] The Brand SERP Guy: But, basically, Google is saying, I want to understand the world much in a way human understands the world, and it’s got one basic way of doing it. It’s called the Knowledge Graph, and it’s Google’s understanding of the world. And you can think about it like an encyclopedia for machines. And it’s basically, the machine can look up in a nanosecond everything in the world in this massive encyclopedia. If you think Wikipedia is big, let’s say it’s got 2 billion facts in it. I don’t know. Google has got a thousand billion facts in it already, and it’s only just started. That’s a tiny proportion of what it’s going to understand.
[00:36:49] The Brand SERP Guy: So, we’re not onto NLP yet, but what we had is Google used to take information from Wikipedia, Wikidata, IMDb, MusicBrainz, and these other kind of website, Rotten Tomatoes, all these sites that where human beings giving it information that said, okay, we can rely on that as being more or less true. But now it’s gone out into the wider world, and it’s using what we call natural language processing to analyse a text in a page. And rather than just counting the number of words in it which is what it used to do for SEO, it’s saying, what can I understand from this text? What facts can I extract from this text and add to my encyclopedia? And that and recently, in fact, they just launched a new set of algorithms, one of which is called MUM, which mean that it is a thousand times more powerful than it was a year ago.
[00:37:46] The Brand SERP Guy: Now, if you stop and think about that for a moment, in a year, they’ve moved forward a thousand times. And this is all aimed at basically taking all the rubbish we write very badly, fragmented information written by people who don’t know how to express themselves properly, and no insult to anybody in the world. I’m exactly the same. You write anything that’s really clear and, of course, it isn’t because the machine, and this is important, doesn’t have an imagination, doesn’t have any culture, doesn’t have the sense of irony.
NLP and How The Machine Can Understand Humans Better
[00:38:17] The Brand SERP Guy: So when you write something, and it doesn’t like poetry, it doesn’t understand poetry, so when you write something poetic and funny and ironic with a lot of culture behind it, well, you have to make imaginative leaps to understand that the machine is completely stuck. But if we write more clearly, obviously, the machine understands better. NLP, natural language processing, aims at getting the machine to understand better the rubbish that we actually write. Sorry. Rubbish is a very, very bad way of saying it. But the way we express ourselves which is very clear to another human being but isn’t clear to a machine, and it’s moving forward phenomenally quick. Now, I think that’s the point I’m trying to make is if they can improve a thousand times in a year, that’s exponential. In another year, it’s going to be 10,000 times more than it is today, so on and so forth.
A Quick Story About AlphaGo, The Program That Can Beat Every Single Human Being in Go
[00:39:07] The Brand SERP Guy: I’ll just tell you a really quick story with Go. If anybody doesn’t know this story is they had AlphaGo that learned to be, basically, I can’t remember the exact story, but they spent 10 years building a program that could beat a human being at Go. That was the most complicated game in human history with more possible different options than there are atoms in the universe, and a machine simply cannot comprehend that or analyse it to that extent. They spent 10 years building this algorithm that could finally beat a human being. And then, they put that in the bin, and they started another one. And it took them less than a year to build a new machine that not only beat one human being but beat every single human being on earth.
[00:39:56] Jason Davis: Wow. Okay. Yeah.
[00:39:57] The Brand SERP Guy: And that’s the point is that they spent 10 years getting to one stage, and it was another year to get to the next stage to beat every human being. And now, there’s no point in building any more algorithms that do that because it’s so easy. Human beings have got left behind in that. So, the speed at which they can make these machines smarter is beyond anything we’ve ever experienced before. And it’s kind of scary, but it’s also kind of exciting.
[00:40:22] Jason Davis: Yeah. Because when you say, when you talk about things like that or bring that up, I just have the Terminator theme in the back of my head.
[00:40:30] Jonathan Payne: It’s like the algorithm is going to create an algorithm, and we’re screwed.
[00:40:35] Jason Davis: Yeah. We’re going to be, yeah, it’s got that, this is when you get into, you’re hearing people talk about, well, we’re already in The Matrix.
[00:40:43] Mitch Gregory: Skynet, man. Skynet.
Focusing on Google’s Customer Satisfaction
[00:40:47] The Brand SERP Guy: But it’s exactly it is that the machine and, sorry, this actually comes back having geeked out and been a bit overenthusiastic and probably quite confusing, I do apologise to everybody. But rather than focus on what are the factors that we think change the results in Google, think about what Google are asking the machine to do. And the machine is writing itself. It’s sitting there. It’s gone, okay, here’s what I’m trying to do. Every time I do it, Google then tell me this was good, this was bad.
[00:41:19] The Brand SERP Guy: So, they’re sending in corrective data or confirmation data. And the machine will then adapt itself to try to please the human beings in terms of the goal the human beings have given it. So, nobody really knows what the machine is doing to solve this problem. So, there’s no point in obsessing about the individual details. We need to focus on what are the metrics that Google are giving this machine? And the metrics are customer satisfaction, Google’s customer satisfaction. And once again, your audience are a subset of Google’s users who are in fact their customers. Google simply wants to bring the best service they can to your audience who are a subset of their users.
[00:42:01] Jason Davis: Yeah. Yeah. I liked how you said earlier, it’s looking at Google, you trying to look at it perpendicularly, looking at it parallel. Try to go in the direction that they’re going. And that’s where that whole SEO strategy, everything, you can have somebody that knows this stuff. And that’s why organic is not free or cheap because you’ve got to have somebody that’s got that thought process to see because as fast as it changes, it updates. There’s got to be somebody that’s aware of these things to be able to keep you current because that’s the whole point of a branding agency. Well, there’s a lot of points in a branding agency.
[00:42:32] Jason Davis: One of the reasons what a branding agency does is keep you current. And it’s not just across visuals. It’s also things like this. And so, I love that you brought that up about, stop trying to attack Google like that and try to go with it and where it’s going and try to make your brand and everything in that way as well valid. That’s great.
[00:42:51] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah. It’s trying to please your audience just as much as you are. And it sounds trite. But if you satisfy your own audience, all you then need to do is convince Google that you can do it. And Bob’s your uncle. You’ve made your SEO. There’s no need to fret about it.
A Cultural Difference in The Way of Talking and History Between The UK and The US
[00:43:11] Jason Davis: I love that, man. I know a lot of our listeners are probably here locally, but Bob’s your uncle. The fact you popped that one in, I love that.
[00:43:20] The Brand SERP Guy: Bob is actually my uncle.
[00:43:27] Jason Davis: For those listening, there’s your cultural difference right there. Rubbish, Bob’s your uncle. There’s a million more, but I love it. I love it.
[00:43:36] The Brand SERP Guy: You guys don’t say Bob’s your uncle. What do you say?
[00:43:39] Jason Davis: I don’t know, man. We’re a mishmash of instead of our uncle, that’s awesome, that’s amazing, there you go, atta boy. There’s all those.
[00:43:50] The Brand SERP Guy: All right. You don’t say, you’ve got a possum in your pocket?
[00:43:54] Jason Davis: You’re going to have to define that one.
[00:43:56] Jonathan Payne: We might kick an example if you don’t.
[00:44:04] The Brand SERP Guy: Okay. Obviously, you have a particular point of view on that. But I just meant you’ve caught your possum.
[00:44:11] Mitch Gregory: Got you. Got you.
[00:44:13] The Brand SERP Guy: It wasn’t great. Sorry.
[00:44:15] Mitch Gregory: No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not at all. Not at all.
[00:44:20] Jason Davis: There’s a lot of people here in the country that, they possums, they deal with bills a lot. So if you got a possum, that’s a bad day here in Kentucky if you got a possum in your pocket.
[00:44:30] Jonathan Payne: I don’t know. Depends on who you are.
[00:44:35] The Brand SERP Guy: Okay. I think one really important thing to bear in mind here is when you’re from the UK, living in France, you have so little knowledge of American culture that you’re just going to make idiotic comments like cups of tea sliding off tables and possums in pockets, and it’s not going to make any sense.
[00:44:52] Mitch Gregory: You have not been that far afield. Don’t worry about it. I don’t think anything has been said here that people probably didn’t catch it just yet.
[00:45:00] Jonathan Payne: Except Mitch’s garden analogy. I don’t know about that one.
[00:45:04] Jason Davis: Yeah.
[00:45:05] Jonathan Payne: It was good. It was good.
[00:45:08] Jason Davis: I think that American, obviously, off topic but that’s okay. We like the variety here. American culture, it’s more and more fascinated with other cultures like the UK. Netflix, for example, I’m a big fan of the show, the series, The Crown. Of course, I’m sure the Royal family probably isn’t, but I enjoy that. I’m a big fan of history anyways. American history is one thing. European history, pre-World War I, and all that has been something that I’ve been re-diving back into just because it’s just, I don’t know, it’s more fascinating, it’s more rich in that sense and learn how did we get from those times to now is always a good lesson to revise yourself on and see. I don’t think many people realise how Europe was set up with monarchs and how that kind of all changed radically during when World War I broke out. So, but, anyway.
[00:46:14] The Brand SERP Guy: Right. And how are we going to get through the next steps? Nobody knows, and it’s going to be incredibly interesting. I think we’re really at the dawn of something. You were talking about Terminator and The Matrix could be scary, could be wonderful, could be a mixture of both. We really don’t know.
[00:46:36] Jonathan Payne: I’ve been watching a lot of Vikings on Amazon Prime, so I feel that’s probably closer to where we’re at, but maybe that’s just scenic.
[00:46:46] Jason Davis: Yeah. Jon’s in his backyard knocking down a tree, carving out a boat.
[00:46:50] Jonathan Payne: Just getting ready. Just getting ready.
[00:46:53] Jason Davis: Just about an hour from water, but it’s fine.
A World Perspective on How Geo-Sensitive Google Is
[00:46:57] Mitch Gregory: Yeah. I don’t know what brought this to mind, but I just, and I throw this out to just for the sake of conversation. It’s just that the fact that you walk through Boston or Philadelphia in the United States, and you walk through the old parts of it, it’s like, oh, it’s 250 years old. That’s old. You walk to parts of Europe there, villages that still exist that are a thousand years old. The perspective is just so fascinating between the US and Europe from that respect.
[00:47:28] Mitch Gregory: I do think, circling back to the internet, the global nature of the internet I think has given a lot of people now opportunity to gain that global perspective of how much larger the world is, but at the same time, the ability to immediately communicate the three of us with you, Jason, in real time in Paris in video in this day and age. How we can take that for granted now, it’s just amazing. 10 years ago, is it realistic to say that it wasn’t…
[00:48:06] Jonathan Payne: Close. You barely had it back then.
[00:48:12] The Brand SERP Guy: Coming back to Google and the whole digital marketing thing is I think people fail to realise how geo-sensitive Google is. And that world perspective is that we think, yeah, okay, it’s a big world. And I assume the results, talking about Brand SERPs once again, for a company within the same country, you will see very different Brand SERPs in New York than you will in San Francisco for a brand or a person, and then different again in Australia. Because what Google is showing in Australia, let’s take that as example, is what’s relevant to the Australian audience.
[00:48:45] The Brand SERP Guy: So if I’m an international brand and I’ve got a New York Times article, that will rank on my Brand SERP when somebody searches my brand name in New York and perhaps San Francisco. In Australia, it’s the Sydney Times that’s going to rank. And that perspective is that Google is incredibly geo-sensitive, especially to people’s names. What is the intent of the person searching? What is going to be useful for them for this brand in the circumstances which could be mobile, desktop, but specifically the geolocation they find themselves in.
[00:49:21] Jason Davis: Yeah. That’s almost like an entire another episode and podcast getting around there. Everybody that I know is they want to rank at the top locally for local search, and it’s okay, and that’s all I can answer to them because I don’t want to break their heart.
[00:49:40] Jonathan Payne: We’ve lost a deal with something. You remember, Jason, we lost a potential client because another agency ranked higher for just a term web design or something like that. And I’m like, yeah, but we’re not in that area. Of course, they’re going to rank higher than us. We’re not in their little edge.
[00:49:58] Mitch Gregory: That’s not where we’re hanging our hat on.
[00:49:59] Jason Davis: Yeah. We’re more in the digital branding management type arena which actually encompasses all of the things including marketing and web and all that. Our thing is the branding because we’ve seen so many projects in our time and our careers that didn’t start with defining that message and the voice and tone and the creative. As a web designer, I’ve been handed pamphlets before and said, can you make a website out of that? And I did. But don’t use that to make a t-shirt or logo out of it because it’s a pamphlet. I guess that’s the right color.
[00:50:41] The Brand SERP Guy: And the point you’re making about branding is what you were saying, Jonathan, ranking for a specific term in a specific place is truly the one trick pony. Don’t hang your hat as you were saying, Mitch, on that one trick pony. Brand is golden because it crosses all the channels and gets offline and hits your audience exactly where you need it to if you’ve got that consistent brand message. Brand is universal.
[00:51:08] Jason Davis: Yeah. Yeah. It’s not something somebody else can copy or steal because usually it’s tied to somebody or something that’s unique. So, that’s one thing that I love about it is it’s, I’m not really into. NerdBrand is really not a gimmick. It’s just a name that evolved out of the fact that that’s who I am, and it was a podcast, and then Mitch jumped on it and, boom, it turned into what it is now. I could have called it just about anything in my opinion, but it needed to fit our personalities, and it just seemed to work.
Definition of a Nerd According to The NerdBrand Podcast
[00:51:45] Jason Davis: So, that’s why we landed on that for us, but it’s not a gimmick. I know many people may think, oh, you’re nerds. Well, yeah. But how we define a nerd is the, well we can quote, not what you love, but how you love it. So, it does encompass you, Jason, what you love. You talk about, you said it yourself, you geek out over this stuff, you nerd out over all this.
[00:52:04] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah.
[00:52:05] Jason Davis: So, that’s who you are. That’s your nerd. It’s very similar to Jon’s nerd in that sense because that’s sort of where he geeks out too and now Vikings for some reason.
[00:52:18] Jason Davis: Hey, Vikings are cool, man. I got no problem with that.
[00:52:20] The Brand SERP Guy: The Vikings is survival in a post-apocalyptic world. So, lots of what, what would you call it? I’m willing to give that a lot of leeway because you may well be right, and maybe I’ll regret the fact that I’ve got no idea how that’s carved about
[00:52:44] Jonathan Payne: I’ve been practicing my axe throwing and everything.
[00:52:47] Mitch Gregory: Jason, is that a thing that’s happening on the other side of the Atlantic? We have pubs and bars opening up here in the States where one of the things you can do you go into a pub in England and people are throwing darts.
[00:53:04] Jason Davis: I know what you’re going with this, Mitch.
[00:53:06] Mitch Gregory: Now, it’s becoming a thing in the States where people are throwing axes.
[00:53:11] The Brand SERP Guy: No.
[00:53:14] Mitch Gregory: While being served liquor.
[00:53:16] The Brand SERP Guy: Right. That sounds really dangerous. Definitely not something I’ve come across. And if I did come across it, I would probably walk the other way.
[00:53:25] Mitch Gregory: Just curious. I was just curious, just trying to take the global temperature here.
[00:53:29] The Brand SERP Guy: No. I’m beginning to wonder if I don’t get out enough.
[00:53:33] Mitch Gregory: Somehow, I don’t see this happening in Paris, but maybe I have a flawed view of what Paris is actually like.
[00:53:43] Jason Davis: Well, yeah. There’s axe throwing contests. There’s places that are just set up just to throw, without the liquor, just to compete.
[00:53:50] Mitch Gregory: Right.
[00:53:50] Jason Davis: And it’s nuts. It’s been a thing for about, I don’t know, last five, well, I don’t want to say last five years because things have blown by for me. So, I don’t even probably know what decade I’m in right now.
[00:54:01] Mitch Gregory: Well, maybe five. Maybe five.
[00:54:02] Jason Davis: Maybe five? Okay. So, yeah. Yeah. There’s throwing axes, but I agree, not probably a good mix with liquor and axes, but anyway.
Check Out More About The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard)
[00:54:12] Jason Davis: So, anyways, we appreciate having you on the show. Tell people where they can find you online, tell them where your website is, all that stuff, anything you want to plug one last time before we sign off.
[00:54:24] The Brand SERP Guy: Right. Yeah. Well, offline, you definitely won’t find me in a pub where they throw axes. So, forget that one. Online, you can find me on Twitter. I like Twitter a lot. I do lots of experiments on Brand SERPs and Knowledge Panels and Google’s understanding of the world, the NLP you were talking about earlier on the Knowledge Graph, and I post them to Twitter. So if you’re interested in seeing silly experiments on cartoon characters and writers and books and myself and my company, follow me on Twitter. It’s all a bit mad, but it’s a lot of fun, and I enjoy it greatly.
[00:55:00] The Brand SERP Guy: If you’re a bit more serious, LinkedIn. I tend to post more serious stuff. Other than that, search my name, Jason Barnard, and you’ll see all of the stuff, all of the sites, the Search Engine Journal, SE Ranking, WordLift, jasonbarnard.com, my site, Kalicube, my company, the Knowledge Panel. Take your pick. Go and look at the blue dog. Go and look at the folk punk band that I was in. Read my Search Engine Journal articles. The choice is yours. And that’s the point of a Brand SERP.
Convincing Google To Call Jason Barnard as The Brand SERP Guy
[00:55:27] Jonathan Payne: I want to ask before we jump off, how did you get as The Brand SERP Guy? Self-proclaimed? Is that something that you were given over time? Your branding?
[00:55:39] The Brand SERP Guy: You found me out. Yeah. You found me out. This is straight from the horse’s mouth. I’ve decided that’s what I’m called. And I don’t know, a hundred percent. But part of the challenge for me is can I convince Google to call me that. The answer so far is no, but I’m not giving up.
[00:55:55] Jonathan Payne: Well, we’ll include it. We’ll make sure we include it in the podcast title and all that so maybe it will corroborate the claim.
[00:56:02] The Brand SERP Guy: Yeah. Jonathan mentioned Jason, and we’re going to nail it finally after all these years. Thank you very much guys.
[00:56:10] Jonathan Payne: I’m going after you, Google.
[00:56:12] Mitch Gregory: We’ll have to do this again. I think there’s lots of ground we still haven’t covered.
[00:56:18] Jason Davis: Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
[00:56:20] The Brand SERP Guy: Absolutely. But the Viking boat thing, perhaps we can stick to gardens, tables, and teapots falling off tables.
[00:56:32] Jason Davis: Yeah. I don’t know if they’ll let Jon actually make a boat in the middle of Metro Louisville, but a garden, I think we could probably work on the garden part.
[00:56:42] Jonathan Payne: We can’t stop him.
[00:56:45] Mitch Gregory: We can’t stop him.
The NerdBrand Podcast’s Social Sites
[00:56:45] Jason Davis: Yeah. No zoning laws got violated. Nobody gets hurt in the making of this, got hurt in the making of this podcast which you can find on nerdbrandagency.com/podcast. You can find us across social networks at NerdBrand Agency. Like and subscribe to this podcast on YouTube. Click the bell for notifications so that you can get the latest episodes sent to you, all that good stuff I think I’ve covered. That’s one thing I’m getting used to is saying all that for YouTube.
[00:57:13] The Brand SERP Guy: And if I may say so, Jason, that was the most beautiful, smooth segue that I’ve heard in many a moon.
[00:57:23] Jason Davis: I sometimes do that, but all the other times, it’s just a mess. But, anyways, I appreciate you being on the show with us. Thank you to all our listeners. Check Jason out. We’ll put links in the description and the content below the video on YouTube. And for everybody, keep your nerd brand strong.