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Brand SERP Optimisation with Jason Barnard

Jason Barnard, the Brand SERP Guy, joins the EDGE to talk about Brand SERP Optimization.  We cover a host of steps to improve Google’s understanding of your brand. Learn about rich site links, Twitter, and video cards and how topical, relevant content makes its way into the Brand SERPs. This is the modern business card and managing the data brings you more into focus for Google and your customers.  You cannot just ignore it.

A Brief Introduction on Brand SERP Optimisation and Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) 

[00:00:00] Erin Sparks: Optimising your digital business card, the Brand SERP is your most important brand tactic. We break all the steps down to do just that with Jason Barnard, The Brand SERP Guy, today on the EDGE. Your weekly digital marketing trends with industry trend setting guests powered by your digital marketing pioneer, Site Strategics. This week’s featured guest is Jason Barnard, CEO of Kalicube, The Brand SERP Guy. Now here’s your host, Erin Sparks.

[00:00:34] Erin Sparks: Welcome back to the EDGE and part two of our interview with Jason Barnard, CEO of Kalicube. Be sure to listen to the first part of the interview. We talked about brand and personal SERPs and the impact of overlooking this very important place of engagement. This is your Google Business Card and you should be paying attention to that like never before. So, Jason, welcome back to the show. 

[00:00:58] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Thank you very much.

[00:00:59] Erin Sparks: You’re more than welcome.

[00:01:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Lovely to be back. 

[00:01:01] Erin Sparks: We’re really having a good time with our splitted use of metaphors and analogies as we’re describing the Brand SERP, the personal SERPs. Before, first, I want to make sure that we introduce you for listeners who haven’t heard the first show. Jason’s a regular contributor to leading digital marketing publications, such as Search Engine Journal, Search Engine Land, and regular guest on others, such as WordLift, SEL, SE Ranking, Semrush, Search Engine Watch, Searchmetrics, and Trustpilot. Geez. When do you get a, you don’t even get a break. He’s also been a speaker at BrightonSEO, Pubcon, SMX series, ITB Berlin, and YoastCon.

Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) As a Voice of a Cartoon Blue Dog

[00:01:37] Erin Sparks: And for everybody who didn’t catch the first episode, he also has a unique relationship with our family here. He actually was the voice of Boowa of Boowa and Kwala, a blue dog, starting in 1998. And our family listened and participated with the online multimedia site. And there were constant ear worms, all 98 songs of that show. And I think I got another snippet, if I’m not mistaken.

[00:02:15] Erin Sparks: Folk says I eat horribly my breakfast and my lunch and tea, but I simply cannot see why she says these things to me. Munchie, munchie, munchie, I scrunch and crunch and munch my lunch. Munchie, munchie, munchie, I scrunch and crunch my lunch. 

[00:02:23] Erin Sparks: All right. So, I just wat to tell you, Jason, that that song as well permeated my skull so many times, because my little boy was right there had a fantastic time on the website. He would play that over and over and over again. So, you’ve been in my head for 20 years, Jason. 

[00:02:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Well, in fact, you’ve picked the two most kind of annoying catchy songs that I wrote. But there was a really nice jazzy one, which is on a windy day when the wind is a blow and I got to got where I am going, I can walk with skippy steps, I can skip with slidey steps, but I don’t get too far, which would be much more pleasant to listen to. 

[00:03:10] Erin Sparks: Absolutely. Absolutely. But I wanted to bring to the rest of the world what you have done to me for 20 years. That’s what I want to do.

[00:03:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You brought the two most annoying songs I wrote, and there are actually some slightly more fun. But in fact, interestingly enough, way interestingly enough, I wrote all the songs, 96 of them, with the aim that they would be something that kids would sing in their everyday life. There was I Love Snow.

[00:03:37] Erin Sparks: Trust me, they did.

[00:03:38] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And there was some great, Hooray Another Sunny Day, A Windy Day, I’m Driving My Car. I can’t remember what the other ones were. But the idea was that Boowa and Kwala, and now I realise I managed it. This is actually another kind of goosebumpy moment. That Boowa and Kwala will become an element of the family day-to-day life, and that they would, the kids would burst out into song spontaneously because they see something or experience something that they had seen on the show.

Being a Part and a Positive Influence on Kids’ Lives

[00:04:10] Erin Sparks: What a great family experience as a sidebar just to be able to contribute and the kids seeing the contribution that you were providing two millions of users coming to that website monthly. I don’t know if they had the full mind of what you’re doing. And certainly as your kids have grown up, they understand that they were part of the energy that went into that show, right?

[00:04:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. And they would send their drawings into between the sea and the post office, as we said in the last episode. And my wife in particular was extremely touched by that, and we would have galleries. And when you see the drawings that these kids do or did, it’s really touching and it really makes you feel like you’re making a difference.

[00:04:56] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And we had a couple of really nice stories. We had a grandma who used Boowa and Kwala for the babysitting purposes. And she said, I can’t thank you enough because my child, her parents didn’t teach her to say please and thank you. And just by watching Boowa and Kwala, she now says please and thank you. And I realised at that point, I said please and thank you obsessively even in real life.

[00:05:18] Erin Sparks: Yep.

[00:05:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): We didn’t actually write it into the script. I just kept adding it. And another one was a mother of an autistic 19 or 20-year-old. And she said, it’s the only thing we can get him to sit down and actually pay attention to for any period of time.

[00:05:33] Erin Sparks: That’s amazing. 

[00:05:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And you think I’m actually doing some good in the world here.

[00:05:37] Erin Sparks: There you go.

[00:05:38] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And my end, we had 5 million visits when in 2007 when I left. I actually thought we could get to something like 20 or 30 million visits. And my aim was to share what I considered to be good, positive, helpful content with as many people in the world as I possibly can.

[00:05:58] Erin Sparks: Well, you certainly did, certainly did. So, I just wanted to make sure our listeners knew who Jason was and what he did for a lot of people.

Inventing a Whole Family for Boowa and Kwala and Voicing Them as Well

[00:06:06] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Can I just tell you one other really silly story?

[00:06:09] Erin Sparks: Absolutely.

[00:06:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I don’t know if you already know this. You might already know it. You might have guessed is that we were in Mauritius and we had these two characters, Boowa and Kwala. And the first two years or three years is only Boowa and Kwala.

[00:06:22] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:06:22] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And then we invented them a family.

[00:06:24] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:06:24] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And the family don’t say a word for a year. They’re completely silent because we couldn’t find anybody in Mauritius to do the jobs. And we kept interviewing people and they were just, it just didn’t work. In Mauritius, tiny island, not very many people around, there wasn’t very much voice talent knocking around in Mauritius in 2000. And in the end, I just said, I’ll do the voices.

[00:06:46] Erin Sparks: Yeah. You did them all.

[00:06:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You can’t have the whole thing with two characters talking and completely silent parents, grandparents. So, I actually ended up, it was I was my own mother, my own father, my wife’s father, my wife’s grandfather, and my daughter was my sister. Get your head around that. 

[00:07:05] Erin Sparks: All right. So, Jason Barnard is also a bit schizophrenic at the same time. 

[00:07:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And being your own mother and father is a bit weird.

[00:07:14] Erin Sparks: Yeah. I’m not even going to go there. All right.

[00:07:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): No, no, no. Right back on to something.

The Importance of Brand SERPs: Your Brand SERP Is Your Google Business Card

[00:07:19] Erin Sparks: No, but it does give a background. And again, I just wanted to make sure that our listeners found out about your other vocation. And obviously, Jason’s been in Brand SERP and Brand SERP management and optimisation for a while, and he’s The Brand SERP Guy. So, we wanted to bring him on board and really talk to our users about what the Brand SERPs are. If you didn’t catch the first segment, please go and listen to it. Briefly, why are Brand SERPs so important?

[00:07:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Well, I like to say your Brand SERP is your Google Business Card. It’s basically a representation that your audience will see on a regular basis. Everybody googles your brand name. All your audience will google your brand name at some time or another in their relationship with you, be their clients, journalists, potential prospects, potential hires, and so on and so forth. And I think we underestimate that our existing clients actually google our brand name to navigate to the site and they see that potentially multiple times a day.

[00:08:16] Erin Sparks: Yeah.

[00:08:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So if it looks great, you’re going to reassure them that they’ve made the right choice. If it looks rubbish, they’re going to jump ship at some point. There are actually three reasons. That’s reason number one. Reason number two is it’s a great insight into your content strategy. You guys do a lot of video, a lot of podcasts. If you are doing a lot of video and your video boxes aren’t appearing on your Brand SERP, that means either your videos are absolute rubbish or that Google can’t see that your audience are engaging and that it’s valuable to your audience, because what it’s showing on your Brand SERP is what’s valuable. So if you’re investing in video but you don’t have video boxes or you’re spending loads of time on Twitter but you don’t have the Twitter boxes, you’re shooting in the wrong barrel as it were.

Your Brand SERP Is a Window Into Your Digital Ecosystem 

[00:08:55] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And the third one is it’s a great reflection, an insight, a window into your digital ecosystem. It will show you what Google thinks the world thinks about you. And that’s incredibly important. Don’t spend a fortune on some marketing company who’s going to go and ask 50 people what they think and try and look at Facebook and try and analyse Twitter. Google’s doing it already, but it’s doing it on a massive scale that nobody else can compete with.

[00:09:20] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So if you search your brand name, you look through those first hundred results, you’ll see what Google thinks the world thinks about you. And I don’t think we have a better measurement than Google, what Google thinks about it. I’m not saying Google’s necessarily right. But the really interesting thing is if you think Google’s getting it wrong, it’s up to you to explain to Google, to educate Google.

Treating Google Like a Child That You Need to Educate

[00:09:44] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And we come back to children here and my side. My first ever talk, public conference talk was five years ago, six years ago now in France. And I looked at it the other day, and I’m saying exactly the same thing I was saying six years ago, which sounds like I might be boring but actually means that I was getting it right. And it’s what you’re seeing is what Google thinks the world thinks about you. Second, number one, if it’s wrong, treat Google like a child. You need to educate it.

[00:10:11] Erin Sparks: Ooh.

[00:10:13] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And education with Boowa and Kwala, which is a great segue though.

[00:10:16] Erin Sparks: Yeah, there it is.

Education isn’t about forcing things down a child’s throat. It’s about explaining it slowly, patiently, and clearly, absolutely important, and getting multiple corroborative sources that the child trusts.

jason barnard (the brand serp guy)

[00:10:18] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Education isn’t about forcing things down a child’s throat. It’s about explaining it slowly, patiently, and clearly, absolutely important, and getting multiple corroborative sources that the child trusts.

[00:10:36] Erin Sparks: There you go.

[00:10:36] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So if you are saying it, the grandparents are saying it, the teacher is saying it, the headmaster is saying it, the baker down the road who everybody loves because he’s such a nice chap or such a nice lady, if they’re all saying it, the child will believe and understand and digest. And if everyone’s contradicting each other, they’re never going to get a grip on it.

Using Boowa as a Metaphor for Us Who Are Trying to Educate Google Who Is Kwala 

[00:10:53] Erin Sparks: I think he just one up me on my metaphors there. So, we’ve connected the dots, literally. Boowa, basically Boowa is, we are Boowa and we’re trying to, Boowa is the older brother dog, and we’re trying to educate Google who’s Kwala and trying to give great trusted resources to be able to understand its world.

[00:11:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And those trusted resources are Grandma Koala, Grandpa Koala, Mummy Koala, Daddy Koala, and each one had a specific role, like Grandpa Koala was the arts and craft, and Mummy Koala was the knitting and the decorations of the rest of it, and Dawa, who was Boowa’s father, was the musician. So, you went to each one for reliable information about a specific topic, and we actually segmented that very carefully. And that’s what, I was going to say Boowa does, that’s what Google does.

[00:11:43] Erin Sparks: Yeah.

[00:11:44] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): If it wants to know about music, it goes to MusicBrainz. If it wants to know about films, it goes to IMDb and so on and so forth. So, Google has its Kwala.

[00:11:54] Erin Sparks: Yep.

[00:11:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I am Boowa, which is wonderful, and I keep pointing Kwala, Google, to all the other members of the family for information that it can rely on and trust. Brilliant. Wonderful. Thank you.

[00:12:06] Erin Sparks: There we go. Absolutely.

An Idea of Rebooting Boowa and Kwala That Teaches SEO and Sings SEO Ditties

[00:12:07] Jacob Mann: I’m going to jump in.

[00:12:08] Erin Sparks: Yep. Yep. Yep.

[00:12:08] Jacob Mann: I got to say it. Reboots are really popular. Everyone loves nostalgia. If your son’s turning 21, maybe he wants to learn SEO from Boowa and Kwala.

[00:12:19] Erin Sparks: Ooh.

[00:12:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, lovely.

[00:12:20] Erin Sparks: That’s like you’ve just done some sort of SEO, AEO inception here.

[00:12:28] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant. Wonderful.

[00:12:28] Erin Sparks: I just, you realise I just planted the seed here. We’re going to be able to get him to sing that at some point in time.

[00:12:33] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And I could write silly SEO ditties.

[00:12:37] Erin Sparks: Yeah. 

[00:12:38] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brilliant.

[00:12:38] Jacob Mann: I’m just saying that so you can do.

[00:12:39] Erin Sparks: I think Mordy Oberstein is already doing that, so.

[00:12:42] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, dang. Mordy Oberstein gets in there first as always.

A Few Stories About Singing Off Key and Summarising the Analogies Made About Google and Brand SERPs 

[00:12:46] Erin Sparks: Absolutely. So, we caught your end of year Christmas sing-along with a bunch of different SEOs.

[00:12:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, god. Yeah. We’ve done it two years in a row. What’s really fun about is you get people, Aleyda Solis joined in and she just said, I can’t sing. And you’re saying, and in fact, one of the nicest voices is Aleyda’s because she does it in such a natural way. It’s out tune, out of time, but it sounds so lovely.

[00:13:12] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Another story about my ex-wife, Kwala, she started off singing like Aleyda. And so, Kwala doesn’t sing very well. And over the years, she learned to sing, and she got better and better. She kept singing in time and in tune. So, I used to have to, in the recording studio, say, sing it again but worse. You’re getting too good.

[00:13:28] Erin Sparks: That’s too funny. All right, all right. So, we’re going to leave Boowa and Kwala on their island and come back around to…

[00:13:34] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Sorry.

[00:13:34] Erin Sparks: No, no, no. It was a great analogy. We needed to get there because it paints the picture of what Google’s going through to understand you, understand the corporation of the brand that you serve. And we want to be able to have a great mirror from Google and all the different elements of the Brand SERP. So, you’ve got the Knowledge Panel, you’ve got the Twitter cards, you’ve got the video cards, you’ve got the rich snippets, you’ve got the featured snippets, so to speak. There’s so many different things. This is your modern digital business card. And if you don’t pay attention, the experience that your potential user’s going to have or the user or your client that’s trying to check you out or the prospect, what have you, they’re trained. And if you’re anemic, that’s a detriment right there.

Learning More About Rich Sitelinks on Your Brand SERP

[00:14:18] Erin Sparks: So, let’s go over some steps of Brand SERP optimisation. Let’s talk about the practical stuff. Let’s go through Rich Sitelinks, one of the key things. Instead of just having a single link to your website, one of the more important things to be able to see is Google understanding the depth and the structure of your site. And it’ll give you a number of different up to six different sitelinks in your SERP listing, right? How do you get there? 

[00:14:44] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. Well, in fact, those Rich Sitelinks are vastly underestimated. I’m really, really keen on Rich Sitelinks because they take up a lot of real estate that you control, and control of your Brand SERP is phenomenally important.

[00:14:57] Erin Sparks: Yep.

[00:14:58] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Why does Google put them there? Because it gives its users direct access to the areas of the site that Google thinks are interesting and useful for them. So if it’s not putting them there, it simply doesn’t understand where your users might want to go on your site. So typically, not having Rich Sitelinks would be because your site structure is rubbish.

[00:15:18] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:15:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Adding Schema Markup is say, this is an About Us page. This is a contact page. That’s really, really, really helpful. I think it’s 80%. My data set of 70,000 brands that I’ve been tracking for 4 or 5 years now, 80% of chunks, of groups of Rich Sitelinks have an About Us page in. That shows how important that is to Google.

[00:15:40] Erin Sparks: Absolutely.

Login Pages and the Fact That Google Wants to Index Them

[00:15:41] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Login is a really interesting one because I was talking to Joost de Valk. I’m actually helping them with their Brand SERPs, the Yoast team and Yoast itself. So, I work with Yoast or for Yoast on a part-time basis. And he was saying, we know index by default login pages because of the security risk, which is absolutely, absolutely fair. But then you’re saying actually, but that’s one of the principle pages that your users want to go to.

[00:16:08] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:16:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, the fact that Google wants to index it because a lot of the people searching your brand name are searching a brand name to navigate to your site, and they’re already clients.

[00:16:18] Erin Sparks: From a utilitarian standpoint. Absolutely.

Rich Sitelinks Are Incredibly Geo Sensitive

[00:16:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): A hundred percent. So, you have to look at it and say, where do my users want to go? And that’s what I want to push towards Google to indicate to Google that’s what it should be showing. And one other thing that we don’t realise or a lot of people don’t realise about Rich Sitelinks is that they once again, incredibly geo sensitive.

[00:16:40] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): On Kalicube, I was working on it. I had the thing. Peter Mead, who’s an Australian SEO who’s quite famous in Australia. A lot of people in the industry know him around the world, but he was popping up in my Rich Sitelinks for some reason, all over the world. And it’s taken me literally four months to convince Google that the only place he should be appearing is in Australia, and I’ve now done that.

Google Has a Granular Understanding on a Geo Basis What Is Interesting to Your Audience in Any Given Place

[00:17:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And I had a client who have their Land Rover link. They have a page about Land Rover. They offer ESM solutions. And it was popping up all over the world because they had been unexplicit about the fact that their FAQ page on the Land Rover site was about Land Rover and not about Fiat or another brand or another type of product. And then we sorted that out. We disambiguated. We made it incredibly clear. But in the UK, it kept popping up. And the client said, I don’t want it there. And I said, well, you are pre-installed in Land Rover. How many Land Rover pre-installs have you got? And they said, we’ve got a hundred thousand. I said, well, that’s why, because a lot of people in the UK want to go to that page because they have a Land Rover. In America, it’s not relevant so Google isn’t showing it. Google has got incredibly fine, it’s not fine, the word is granular understanding on a geo basis what is interesting to your audience in any given place.

[00:18:03] Erin Sparks: That’s amazing. That’s amazing.

[00:18:04] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): As the final destination within your site, obviously.

[00:18:07] Erin Sparks: Sure.

[00:18:08] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And, oh, sorry. And that brings me to the point, sorry, really important that I think we overlook a lot of the time. Your homepage is never a destination in itself. It’s a stepping stone somewhere else.

[00:18:16] Erin Sparks: Right. Right.

[00:18:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And that gives sitelinks even more kind of this aura of importance.

Your Contact Page Has a Role to Play and They Need Optimising 

[00:18:21] Erin Sparks: It is the concept of Google is wanting more and more engagement on the Google SERP. We’re seeing it with the local interactions, the local three pack where it’s actually providing, even get a quote functionalities on that local listing. So, all the SERP functionality is being continually developed to be able to give the user what it’s looking for as fewest steps as possible. So, the sitelinks themselves are the most important structure and navigation that Google sees in your website, right?

[00:18:58] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And it’s typically very, very easy to to trigger and very easy to influence. You used to be able to actually get rid of them. You can’t do that anymore through search console, but what you can do is make sure you’ve got a meta title, a meta description in your contact page, make sure your contact page actually has some content that might make sense to Google and helps it understand. And don’t imagine, the thing is these are traditionally not SEO pages, but they do have a role to play, and they do need optimising. They just need optimising in a different way.

A Problem Where Google Is Misunderstanding a Login Page

[00:19:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, your login page, typically, I had somebody reach out to me on Twitter, and they were saying, I don’t understand my login page. I can’t remember exactly what the problem was. But basically, what they had done is they’d done a page, which is about the concept of login pages.

[00:19:42] Erin Sparks: Okay.

[00:19:43] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And Google was showing that instead of the proper login page.

[00:19:46] Erin Sparks: Oh, got you, got you.

[00:19:46] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And you say, yeah, but Google’s misunderstanding. Why? Because your page is not being explicit enough that it’s about the concept and isn’t a functional page for your users. So, you need to just take a step back and try and think, why is Google making this mistake? Google doesn’t want to get it wrong. Google doesn’t want to not be helpful.

[00:20:07] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:20:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And I think that’s the hardest thing for brands. That’s a lot of the time where I come in, it’s a lot of common good sense, simple good sense. Take a step back and ask yourself why is Google making this mistake.

Your Brand SERP Should Be Accurate, Positive, and Convincing

[00:20:18] Erin Sparks: Right. Right. I think, if I could recommend, that we also take one more step back of, because if you don’t know how to look at the Google response, you first have to get that right. So for listeners, for companies that are understanding that this is important, what should they look for? They should, if they’re searching their own name and obviously, if they haven’t optimised it or haven’t worked on it, you have the opportunity for Twitter cards, you have the opportunity for video cards, you have the opportunity for a Knowledge Panel, you have the opportunity for sitelinks. What else is in that SERP that that user that’s listening to us should evaluate almost like a checklist of whether they have it or not, just a reconnaissance of their own brand? 

[00:21:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Well, the Brand SERP should represent who you are and what you do. And it should be accurate, positive, and convincing. That’s my little triple of accurate, positive, convincing. If it’s not accurate, you need to correct it. You need to make sure the information is correct.

[00:21:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Twitter Boxes are lovely, because why would Google put them there? Google puts them there because there’s fresh new content constantly coming up that your audience is engaging with. It’s as simple as that. That’s how you trigger them. Video boxes we talked about earlier on, but then underneath, I’ll take mine as an example because we looked at it earlier on. You’ve got Search Engine Journal. You’ve got Search Engine Land. You’ve got Semrush. You’ve got WordLift. And those represent what I do today, what’s relevant for people searching for me today. And what is very interesting is that if you read it, if you read the SERP, the information is incredibly consistent from top to bottom. It says the same thing from top to bottom or iterations of the same thing.

Summarising Jason’s Personal Brand SERP and Getting It to Say What He Wants 

[00:22:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And Andrea Volpini from WordLift, who I work with a lot on my experiments with the Knowledge Panel but also the Brand SERPs, and it provides some of the heavy lifting for Kalicube, was saying Jason Barnard is using Google as his CMS, which I thought was a funny and terribly flattering. Because we had an experiment is that he wrote a script that analyses your Brand SERP and the pages behind it and writes an AI generated summary of who you are and what you do.

[00:22:37] Erin Sparks: Great.

[00:22:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And he did that, and I said, oh, I don’t like that. That’s not what I wanted. There was too much of the blue dog. Oh, no, no, no, no. We don’t want the blue dog. And so I said to him, that was a Saturday, and I said to him, okay, sorry, I sat down on the Saturday and I went through my Brand SERP and I corrected everything that I could find to make it try and say what I wanted. On Tuesday, literally four days later, he re-run the test and it said pretty much exactly what I wanted it to say.

[00:23:03] Erin Sparks: Unbelievable.

[00:23:06] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Sorry, the point being, sorry. Excuse me. I interrupted you.

[00:23:08] Erin Sparks: Yeah. You’re fine.

[00:23:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I’d really like to just because it’s a neat trick if you can play it, but I’ve been doing, I’ve been working on my Brand SERP for seven years.

[00:23:16] Erin Sparks: Right.

An Example Where Google Believed Jason’s Own Good Word That He Played Double Bass on the Ace of Spades

[00:23:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, everything there is incredibly solid. And the thing, and this is interesting, Google believes me on my own good word. And the example of that, and it’s a really silly example, if you search who played double bass on the Ace of Spades, the Motorhead song, the featured snippet says Jason Barnard. Brilliant. Exactly. And I was trying to get Google to say that, but it’s very specific because it’s the double bass, not the bass. Who played the bass on the Ace of Spades is, of course, Lemmy. And if you click on who played the bass on the Ace of Spades, in some countries, if you take, try taking out the word double, because in fact, in some countries, it now says who played the bass on the Ace of Spades, it says Jason Barnard for that as well. Yeah.

[00:24:04] Erin Sparks: Wow.

[00:24:04] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, it now thinks I play the bass on the, this is called pushing it too far. I’ve tricked Google one time too many, I think. John Mueller actually said, if you want to know about Knowledge Panels, ask Jason Barnard, but it looks like if you want get something silly said about yourself in a featured snippet. And Lemmy, I’m really sorry, Lemmy, because that wasn’t my intention. 

[00:24:24] Erin Sparks: How was it? How was Motorhead? How was being in the band? I got to ask these questions, man.

[00:24:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I would like to say though Lemmy is one of my biggest heroes in the entire world. And I, sorry, truth be told, I did play double bass on the Ace of Spades for my band, which was a punk folk band in the 90s. So, I wasn’t lying. I was just using it to see could I get Google to say that. And literally, that experiment, it took me like it was a day before I got that featured snippet.

[00:24:51] Erin Sparks: Wow. So, that’s how responsive Google is and it’s…

[00:24:55] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Handy. Sorry.

Staying Away From Wikipedia and the Story of How Jason’s Wikipedia Page Got Deleted

[00:24:56] Erin Sparks: It can be. The most important thing we’re trying to get across is you got to know what areas to be able to massage and manage first and before anything else is that you can look at the SERPs. But if you don’t know where to go to be able to get the story right, would you recommend people going and creating a Wiki of themselves?

[00:25:18] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Right. Wikipedia, no. Stay well away from it.

[00:25:20] Erin Sparks: Good.

[00:25:21] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I actually had a whole experiment with that. I have Wikipedia or I had Wikipedia pages. Boowa and Kwala deserve a Wikipedia page. They’re notable. There was a TV series, 25 countries, not the biggest success in the world, but notable enough. I’ve been in a band. We sold 40,000 albums. Boowa and Kwala sold 50,000 albums. This is notable stuff. I deserve a Wikipedia page. The Barking Dogs, the group I played in, we played 600 concerts. We played with Bob Dylan. We played on the same bill as Bob Dylan, which is cool as, well, cool. He was a miserable bastard as well. You can cut the rude word. I do apologise.

[00:26:00] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But I interfered with my own Wikipedia page too much. And the Wikipedia editors in June said, right, that’s it, we’re deleting them. And I agree with them to be honest. Over the time, it actually only hurt my ego. It hits your ego, and that’s sad as a human being.

[00:26:17] Erin Sparks: Sure.

[00:26:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But they deleted it and from my point of view, once again, the boat had gone, because I’d done my experiments and I’d understood what I needed to understand. So, my ego was hurt. I sulked for a few days. And then I rebuilt my Knowledge Panel from zero and my Knowledge Graph presence. And what was phenomenally interesting there was that the three entities, The Barking Dogs, which was the group, Boowa and Kwala, and myself. Two of them, The Barking Dogs and Boowa Kwala, actually got stronger after the deletion of the Wikipedia page because I had prepared the groundwork. And mine got deleted, my Knowledge Panel presence, my Knowledge Graph presence, sorry, and my Knowledge Panel actually disappeared. And this is really, really interesting because I moved the home.

Having an Entity Home That Google Recognises as the Owned Source of Information

[00:27:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Now, what do I mean by that? I mean that every entity, Google needs a home that it recognises as the owned source of information for that entity.

[00:27:12] Erin Sparks: Okay.

[00:27:13] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Now, you would imagine, for example, it’s the About Me page or the About Us page. On companies, often it’s the homepage because that’s what happens by default, but it’s not the best idea, and that’s another long story you could go into. But I had my Entity Home on my homepage and I tried moving it to an About Me page, and Google just completely lost its crutch. And it just went, that’s it, and it wiped the whole lot out. Whereas the blue dog and yellow koala and the rock group, their home stayed in the same place with the Schema Markup with a clear explanation. Google had a crutch to stand on.

[00:27:46] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:27:46] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And the Knowledge Graph presence and the Knowledge Panel actually both improved.

[00:27:51] Erin Sparks: Very good. Very good.

Wikipedia on Getting the Wrong Information Sometimes

[00:27:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And interestingly, for all three entities, I then got the description in the Knowledge Panel from my own site. So, I regained control of the message. And Rand Fishkin, who all respect to him, he got his Wikipedia page deleted, which is the wrong way around for most people. But he was saying, I want control of what’s being said about me as fact, and they were getting the facts wrong, which is obviously not good. If you want to, this is his example, not mine, if you ask a Wikipedia editor, what did Captain Kirk say in the 15th minute of the 4th episode of the 25th series of Star Trek, they’re going to get that right. If you ask them who founded Moz, they’re going to get it wrong, which I love as assuring.

[00:28:33] Erin Sparks: That was a really important fact though. We got to get Kirk and Picard’s facts, right. We’ve seen the mixture of trekkies and trekkers and it just didn’t work out. So, you got to go to Wikipedia to make sure it’s fact, right?

[00:28:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. So, that Wikipedia question is actually really important, because now I tell my clients, they will say, oh, I want a Wikipedia mention. You say, it’s actually not a quick route because you’re going to go through that whole editorial process, and it probably won’t go anywhere because you’re not notable. And also, you’re going to create more problems than it’s worth with the Wikipedia community.

The Lower Notability Requirement of Wikidata and the Process of Getting Google to Use Your Site as a Source of Principle Information

[00:29:05] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Wikidata has a lower notability requirement. So if you are notable enough for Wikipedia, Wikidata, sorry, or Wikipedia, in fact, go ahead, but don’t do it yourself like I did. If you’re notable enough for Wikidata, go ahead. Once again, it’s supposed to be done by a third party who has nothing to do with you. So, it’s still a little bit dangerous.

[00:29:26] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:29:26] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But if you are notable, Wikidata is a repository of fact. So, their main aim is to keep it factual so slightly more leeway, but don’t overdo it either. You don’t actually need either of these things, because that concept of saying my entity has a home, that home is on my website, and it’s my About Me page. You then say, here’s the facts, here’s what I want to say about myself. And then you signpost using both links and Schema Markup all the corroborative evidence on all the other relevant authoritative third-party sites to prove what you’re saying, to educate Google like a child, and bingo, you’ve got control, and Google will use your site as the source of principle information.

[00:30:11] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And you then simply after, we were talking about it in the last episode. The information out there is fragmented, it’s unstructured, and it’s contradictory. So, you give it a home, you give it structure, you then point out to the corroboration, and you make sure that that corroboration is correct, or you go around and correct all this NAPs from local search.

[00:30:33] Erin Sparks: Exactly.

[00:30:33] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And it’s so simple. It really is simple, idiotically simple, but it’s only simple once I’ve told you.

What Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) Does Is Just Simple Quality SEO and He Now Controls His Brand SERP After Seven Years

[00:30:43] Erin Sparks: We’re certainly going to go through and put a series of checklists on our show page following this interview to make sure that our listeners can follow that bread crumb because that is the one thing we come across in companies that we work with. They don’t see themselves through the lenses that you’ve just given us. And when you actually start seeing rich managed content and topics and be able to see a truly optimised Brand SERP, it makes all the difference in the world. It is just a context that there are so many users that don’t understand. They’ll see bits and pieces. But when everything actually comes to bear and you see such a structured amount of content around the topic and subject matter and more importantly the brand, it makes all the difference in the world. So as soon as clients see that, then they say, all right, how do we do go about doing it. So for SEOs and marketers who are listening to this, run yourself through the cycle, look at yourself, look at your brand, and start looking where the holes are and then follow some of Jason’s points to be able to start reinforcing and educating Kwala, Google. 

[00:31:49] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): That’s brilliant. In fact, interestingly enough, a lot of pretty much everything I do is simple quality SEO, simple quality relevant engaging content for my audience.

[00:32:03] Erin Sparks: Very good.

[00:32:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And making sure that my audience are saying nice things about me on all the platforms out there and NAPs. So, it’s simple SEO, great content, and NAPs, and bingo, Bob’s your uncle. And that whole point is after seven years, I now have control of my Brand SERP, obviously not a hundred percent control, but the influence is incredibly strong.

The Other Jason Barnards Around the World Who Doesn’t Get a Look in the SERP

[00:32:23] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And if we look at that, the two things I’d like to add is number one is that there’s Jason Barnard, the podcaster. So, it’s another podcaster in the UK. He doesn’t get a look in, the poor guy. There’s a hockey player.

[00:32:35] Erin Sparks: He got to change his name.

[00:32:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): No, he doesn’t mind, actually. He’s really nice about it.

[00:32:40] Erin Sparks: Yeah. Right.

[00:32:40] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): There’s a hockey player in Canada, there’s a footballer, who’s actually quite famous in South Africa, and a couple of chaplains. And there’s three digital marketers in the UK as well with exactly the same name.

[00:32:52] Erin Sparks: Yep.

[00:32:52] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And none of them get a look in. And I feel sorry for them because they’re unlikely to get a look in even in their own countries, even though Google is very geo sensitive.

[00:33:01] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:33:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): They should get a look in. The only place where you don’t see my Knowledge Panel is in San Francisco. You see See Results About when you click through to my Knowledge Panel. And that’s because at Golden Gate University, there is a professor who has an awful lot of publications out there who’s called Jason Barnard.

[00:33:17] Erin Sparks: Got it. Again, geo focused granularity is right there.

Analysing the Problem With Erin Sparks’ Personal SERP

[00:33:22] Erin Sparks: All right. I’m going to give you a crack at this. Jacob, type in Erin Sparks. I want to show Jason, and we’re not going to unpack everything here, but there’s something very, very important. Erin Sparks, right? And you go here, right? We got the LinkedIn, this, that, and the other. You go down to the images, right? And again, the Erin E. Sparks, not me. 

[00:33:45] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): You’re not the intellectual on the right?

[00:33:46] Erin Sparks: I am not the intellectual on the right, but I am surrounded by girls.

[00:33:51] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Oh, wow.

[00:33:51] Erin Sparks: The problem is it’s an Irish name. But in America, literally, it’s a female name, and I’ve lived with that all my life. I got to tell you, been into a few scraps in elementary school, but the thing is all these different females I’m literally amassed in.

[00:34:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But, and sorry, there’s a really interesting point, in fact. That’s a problem I hadn’t seen before. So, thank you very much. Yeah. But especially with people’s names, there are so many, it’s so ambiguous because so many people share the names.

[00:34:25] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:34:25] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brands tend to be reasonably unique and nonambiguous within their own geolocation. People have a, it’s a different problem. And that is a problem that I, it’s actually quite fun. That would be a problem that I would be interested in solving.

[00:34:39] Erin Sparks: There’s not another male on that series of images, except for me, so.

Talking About Probability and Building Knowledge Panels 

[00:34:45] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Interesting enough, sorry, Dawn Anderson talks a lot about probabilistic something. I can’t remember what she says because she’s far too clever for me. But there is the question of probability and that’s the Jason Barnard, Golden Gate University.

[00:34:57] Erin Sparks: Sure.

[00:34:57] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): The probability that they’re looking for, Craig Campbell tells a great story, because he asked me a year ago if I could build his Knowledge Panel for him. And I said, no, because it’s so boring to do. It’s really dull work, which is why I built Kalicube, the platform, because it makes it fast, easy, and the least boring possible, and it focuses you on the right things. And he actually spent a year building Knowledge Panels, and he’s written a couple of articles, so I can talk about it, building Knowledge Panels for himself. He’s onto his 5th.

[00:35:26] Erin Sparks: Wow.

[00:35:27] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): He’s had 5 Knowledge Panels. And he says, and I quote, I have wasted 10,000 pounds, British pounds, building Knowledge Panels to end up with a not very good one after a year. I really should have got Jason on board at the beginning. And that’s the interesting thing about the home, because the mistake he has made throughout is to think that by having, buying some kind of Wiki page, not Wikipedia or Wikidata, a second rate Wiki page, it triggers the Knowledge Panel. No problem. The Wikidata page will trigger a Knowledge Panel in a few days.

[00:36:01] Erin Sparks: Okay.

[00:36:02] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But it doesn’t stick. It doesn’t stick because it doesn’t have a home.

[00:36:07] Erin Sparks: That’s interesting.

[00:36:09] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, sorry, it’s two things. One is it doesn’t have a home. And number two is they don’t keep working on it. They think brilliant. I’ve seen this with so many people.

[00:36:16] Erin Sparks: Sure.

The Idea of Triggering a “Sprout” and Nurturing It

[00:36:16] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It happens all the time. And I just want to say, you could have just asked me. I could have told you. It’s easy. But for whatever reason, people don’t. And then you say, okay, I’ve triggered what I call a sprout. And Laurence O’Toole from Authoritas poo-pooed my suggestion that it should be called a sprout, but I think sprout’s a good thing.

[00:36:37] Erin Sparks: You’re planting. Yeah.

[00:36:39] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. It’s a tiny, tiny Knowledge Panel, and it’s got tiny little roots. And those tiny little sprout with a little bit of wind, it will blow away because the roots haven’t taken.

[00:36:47] Erin Sparks: Sure. Keep it warmer.

[00:36:49] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And it’s stuck in one place. So, you’ve got this sprout that’s stuck in one place with tiny sprouts. You need to nurture that place, nurture the sprouts, get them to grow, get the plant to grow above the stuff that we actually see.

[00:37:02] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:37:03] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But the roots are what are going to keep it there. And what people do is say, oh, I’ve got my sprout, that’s good enough. And any gust of wind comes along like a contradiction on another site, Google goes, oh, I’m not sure about that anymore. Google doesn’t want to put this stuff on the right-hand rail, which is fact, if it thinks it might possibly be wrong because it’s making itself look stupid. It’s letting its users down.

The Problem of Not Having an Entity Home and of Not Constantly Working On It

[00:37:25] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): So, they fail a) they don’t give it home that they control, b) they don’t keep working on it and you need to keep working on it. Once again, come back to that child analogy we had earlier on. Educating, you don’t just stuff it all down its throat in one go. You build it over time. And you build it over time on trusted third-party authoritative sites. And interesting enough, I say trusted, authoritative, third-party, independent. These are actually the rules for Wikipedia.

[00:37:57] Erin Sparks: See how they get it around.

[00:38:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): But the thing is I’m not saying get a Wikipedia page, definitely not. I’m saying that those notability guidelines are simply that whatever you say, you need to be notable, number one, but whatever you say, you need to support it with evidence that comes from independent third-party trusted sources. And that’s what Google’s looking for, but it’s not looking for the notability aspect. It’s just looking for those sources.

More About Entities and Collecting Brand SERPs in a Database

[00:38:23] Erin Sparks: Understood. Well, there’s a lot to unpack folks. Certainly, we want to recommend digging in and following Jason. Look for Jason on Google and you’ll be able to see him everywhere. And it’s really an impressive Knowledge Panel. And more importantly, it’s a very impressive optimised Brand SERP. Unfortunately, I’m going to have to ask you to come back to the show and talk more about search entities in the light, because this is where we are from SEO. We are literally in the space of optimising subject matter knowledge for Google, educating Google. So, there’s certainly a lot more to talk about when it comes down to marketing strategies, right?

[00:39:01] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Well, there is one thing for that entity thing. I actually don’t have the information yet. So, yeah, I would love to come back. Because in 6 months or so, I’m going to have a lot more information, because I’m using Authoritas as API to collect the Brand SERPs. I’ve got a collection of 10 million Brand SERPs in the database.

[00:39:18] Erin Sparks: Wow. Geez.

[00:39:19] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And they ping out. Well, you’ve got the Entity Boxes, both on the left rail and the right rail, and I’m starting to get quite a collection. And I’m working with WordLift to figure out a way to map all of that. And it’s basically an attempt to map Google’s brain. And if we can do that, then we’ve got an insight into how Google actually understands. Because the important thing about the Knowledge Panel, the Knowledge Graph, sorry, if we come back to the kids once again, how do we remember things, it’s not necessarily kids.

Remembering Random Words By Linking Them and Realising Those Are Entities and Their Relationships 

[00:39:48] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): In fact, I was giving a talk in Prague. And the guy before me was Chester international memory man. And he was quite annoying, let’s say, but he can remember a 52 pack, a 52 card deck of cards.

[00:40:03] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:40:04] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And he said, I can get you to remember 15 random words to the audience, and the others were, oh, really, and I wasn’t really listening. And he said the 15 random words, and then he created a story around them.

[00:40:17] Erin Sparks: Right.

[00:40:17] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And of course, within three minutes, everyone could remember them. And that was fine. And then I was sitting there thinking, half listening and thought it’s not 15 random words. It’s 15 random entities.

[00:40:27] Erin Sparks: There it is.

[00:40:28] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And he’s linked them together using verbs. It’s a monkey holding an iron attached by a piece string to a kite. The kite crashes into the house. The house is covered in paper. I can’t remember the rest of it, but I’m doing pretty good. 

[00:40:44] Erin Sparks: Actually, he linked him together with berth, all things being able. 

[00:40:47] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. Exactly. And literally in three minutes, I can remember it. And what’s interesting there is he thought it was the story that was making us remember it. And I knew that it was the entities with the relationships, which Bill Slawski and Dawn Anderson get terribly excited about and Andrea Volpini as well for that matter. And listening to us talk about it is just must be so boring for anybody else. Anyway, that’s another story.

Being Sensible and Having Common Good Sense as Machines Move Forwards Faster Now

[00:41:11] Erin Sparks: No, we’re finding new trails, your discovers, and we are in a new country now. And Google is not only built by people, but it’s building itself. And eventually, we’re talking Skynet here, eventually we’ll going to be mapping Skynet’s brain, right? But that’s what we’re doing right now. We’re trying to find out how to actually not only influence, but also understand how it’s growing its knowledge about different topics, right? 

[00:41:37] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah. A hundred percent. And it’s obviously a work in process and would always be a work in progress, sorry, because the machines are moving forwards faster than we could possibly imagine. And what we can do though is be sensible. And I think that’s what I’m doing with Kalicube is being sensible.

[00:41:53] Erin Sparks: Very good.

[00:41:54] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And common good sense, simple marketing, educating this child, making sure that the information you put out there is consistent and correct and positive, obviously, for your brand and that you join all the dots. So that when it goes around all these dots, it’s going, yeah, okay, understood for, yeah, I’m getting more and more confident, bingo, that’s it, I’m in there. And it’s understood who you are, what you do, and who your audience is. And at that point, things like Discover, how can it possibly push you or your content out to somebody if it doesn’t know who you are, what you do, and what you have to offer them.

[00:42:34] Erin Sparks: Right.

It’s All About Understanding, Credibility, and Deliverability

[00:42:35] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): It needs to understand that because it’s proactively offering your content to somebody who it already understood, understands because its users, it’s got all that data. So if you want to get involved in Discover in any way and get pushed into people, it needs to understand who you are, what you do, and who your audience is and what your specialist topics and subtopics are, which is a topic layer, which is another new thing that’s been kicking around since November.

[00:42:58] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And so, it’s all about understanding. Google needs to understand who you are, what you do, and who your audience is. Credibility, that you are a credible solution for its users. Deliverability that you have the content in the format that the user actually needs and that you can deliver the solution if it’s selling something, for example. So, it’s all about understanding, credibility, and deliverability. That’s your lot. 

[00:43:21] Erin Sparks: That’s your lot. Bob’s your uncle, then you’re done.

[00:43:23] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And Bob is actually my uncle. Yeah.

Thanking Jason Barnard (The Brand SERP Guy) for His Contributions in the World and Promoting the Services Offered by Kalicube 

[00:43:27] Erin Sparks: Well, Jason, it’s been a, I can’t tell you how pleasurable it’s been talking to you, learning about what you do, how you do it, an inner take on things as well as just coming back around, and sharing our own experiences with what you contributed into the world. So, thank you so much for Boowa and Kwala, and thanks again for what you’re doing for SEO and leading SEO to a whole another light on the hill right now, because… 

[00:43:53] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): I’m sorry. For anybody just listening, you can’t see the video, I’m now blushing like a schoolgirl. 

[00:43:59] Erin Sparks: That’s what I try to aim for each and every time. So, we certainly want to have you come back to the show and share with us. Go over to They’re offering Brand SERP courses that teach students how to make the Brand SERP positive, accurate, convincing, and also triggering, manage Knowledge Panels. You’re actually going to be scaling up an offer to bespoke services for Brand SERP optimisation and launching a self-service automated platform that walks marketers through exactly what they need to do for their specific cases. So, can they…

[00:44:29] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): What they need to do and in what order.

Connect With Jason Through His Social Media Accounts 

[00:44:31] Erin Sparks: There you go. Well, we’re certainly going to talk to you about that because we’d love to learn more here at site. We have a constant hunger for new knowledge and, boy, that’s the some great information that we want to follow up on. So if you want to follow Jason, obviously just put his name in. It’s all right there. But if you want to go over to Twitter, it’s @jasonmbarnard. Facebook, you can find them at jason.barnard and some numbers.

[00:44:57] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Yeah.

[00:44:58] Erin Sparks: LinkedIn, Jason M. Barnard. You’ll follow him in every nook and cranny of digital, because he’s been taking care of those sprouts for a very long time.

[00:45:07] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Also, check out Kalicube Pro. It’s actually, not

[00:45:11] Erin Sparks: Oh, I’m sorry. Yep. You were absolutely right. 

[00:45:12] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): And @KalicubePro on Twitter and also on LinkedIn. And I’m doing a Daily Brand SERP. So, I’m picking a Brand SERP and something interesting about it. And you’ll see, if you watch them every day, you’ll think, actually, this is much more interesting than I thought it was.

[00:45:28] Erin Sparks: All right. Well, so, final thought for our digital marketing audience. 

[00:45:33] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Brand SERPs are much more interesting and much more important than you thought they were. Start looking at your own. Look at your competition. Try and figure out what you can do to make your Google Business Card as positive, accurate, and convincing as you possibly can. Because if you do that, if it’s positive, accurate, and convincing, and it truly represents who you are, what you do, and who your audience is, then you’ve got a great digital strategy and you are nailing it. 

[00:46:02] Erin Sparks: Well said, sir. All right. Well, certainly thank you for being part of the show. And we’re eager to share your experiences, your content with our listeners. So, thanks for contributing, really do appreciate it.

[00:46:12] The Brand SERP Guy (Jason Barnard): Thank you so much, Erin. That was wonderful.

[00:46:14] Erin Sparks: You’re more than welcome, more than welcome. Please do not forget to like and subscribe to EDGE of the Web Radio on YouTube. And if you’re feeling up to it, let us know how we did on this interview and give some feedback to Jason as well. We certainly appreciate any reviews that you can provide us. That’s how we can optimise this podcast as well. Thanks to our sponsor, Site Strategics. And be sure to check them out, the agile marketing partners that they are. And I want to make sure that you give them a quick call if you’re looking for some immediate tactics to be able to bring good positive digital marketing results. Be sure to check out all the must see videos over at That’s Make sure you listen to some of the older podcasts. Just the recent podcasts have been fantastic, if I must say so myself. So from all of us over at EDGE, be safe, be well, and do not be a piece of cyber driftwood. We will talk to you next week. Bye bye.

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